Season 3 - Episode 6 | Lifelong Learning and Kindness For a Sustainable Future: Dr. Jimmy Pham (Vietnam)

Join Dr. Ramesh to meet visionary Vietnamese-Australian entrepreneur Dr. Jimmy Pham, a transformative leader and advocate for social justice. Armed with a mission to uplift at-risk and disadvantaged youth, Dr. Pham founded KOTO in 1999, transforming it from a small café into a social impact organisation that has empowered countless underprivileged youth through vocational training and education, bringing profound and positive change to their families and community.

Dr. Pham shares his journey and vision for sustainable development and lifelong learning, emphasising the importance of creating opportunities for sustainable livelihoods and the crucial role of community support in driving positive societal change. Tune in to hear how visionary leadership and grassroots initiatives can shape the future of social impact in Vietnam and beyond.

3 Key Insights from this Podcast:

1. Sustainability as a Core Business Principle: How can leaders integrate sustainability into the core mission of businesses? Dr. Pham shares how KOTO not only provides hospitality training but also focuses on sustainable practices to effect positive impact on the environment and community that is long-lasting.
2. Lifelong Learning and Skill Development empowers the disadvantaged youth under KOTO’s training programs, enabling them to secure stable jobs and build better futures.
3. The Power of Social Enterprises: The transformative potential of social enterprises is realised through addressing social issues with innovative business models, creating significant and sustainable change in communities.

Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host, Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible & Founder of Impact Velocity

Guest Speaker: Dr. Jimmy Pham, Founder of KOTO, Co-Founder of Vietharvest, RMIT- MBA, H.Doc Bus

Tune in, and together we'll be Thriving in the Age of Disruption. 

Thriving in the Age of Disruption with Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
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Transcript

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 00:00

Jimmy, welcome to the Thriving in the Age of Disruption podcast series, we've been talking about having you be a Changemaker guest here. And so, I'm excited that we are having this conversation this morning. 

Jimmy Pham 00:12

First of all, thank you to you, Dr. Ramesh and also to the team. Hello to everyone. Greetings from the capital of Vietnam. My name is Jimmy Pham. I'm Australian, Vietnamese, Korean. I was raised in Australia, and I run Vietnam’s very first social enterprise. So, disruption is my middle name, I take the most disadvantaged, I guess, the most underserved young adults, and then take them on a path to transformation through vocational training and life skills, holistic training, but furthermore, is to build community around the ripple effect means for people helping other people. So, to this date, we have over 2000 graduates and trainees in the program. And we have a very busy couple of restaurants that we run where our students do the practical training further onto that is trying to build more social impact around the ecosystems, from women empowerment to women leaderships to vocational training, to food rescue program with kind of an ecosystem that all intertwined with each other. The key message is that everyone deserves a seat at the table, which is an all-inclusive community that we're trying to build through our social impact work.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 01:22

What really impressed me is this whole entrepreneurial journey that you're taking but in the social impact space. In my podcast, I talk about the entrepreneurial mindset, which is someone who is being resourceful who is able to manage uncertainty, as well as take risks and create value. And obviously, that's what you've done. But you've done that with the social impact piece alongside look back onto your own journey 30 years ago, how do you get started? Why did you think about doing something entrepreneurial in the social sector?

Jimmy Pham 01:56

I think the first thing, Dr. is more of a journey is if everything grows, you don't let your failures, and we have a lot of failures defines you. And that's what happened to me, I came to Vietnam. And in a time where Vietnam was a third world country, where 80% of the population lives under $1 a day, the residue from the war in Vietnam, left a lot of street kids, and I saw a need and I acted on it. So, then this is going back to this whole entrepreneurial mindset, the focus has always been that I want to be that change that I want to see in the world. And that for me was super, super important. And we're celebrating our 25th anniversary this year. And I never moved away from that focus. And believe me, we got criticized as the same the way the first day ignore you, they laugh at you, and then they fight you and then you win. I went through that very much that same journey where I will say no, because I was too small. I worked in a space where in a capital of Vietnam at that time you were an NGO, or you are a business, you there's no such thing as a business with a social mission has what I did that I was under constant scrutiny, because I have a motive an agenda. 

Jimmy Pham 03:05

And I work with children as well as whole safeguarding around that and work in the space that everyone considered that you don't need education, because everyone can cook. So why would you go through such a long period of two years training for those kids that can pretty much turnover in three months. So, all this was a journey of changing that mindset. And they say, don't listen to what I say. But watch what I do. And it's pretty much like that I keep on doing and the testimonial or the successor we have to actually come from because we have such great marketing, but the marketing itself comes from the beneficiaries are the one that actually graduated. And now so successful in a career, that actually they look back with fond memories, and they are this great PR for you, because they're gonna live in prove that it can happen 90% of our staff at the restaurant alumni from the program, so this whole know one teach one. And this ripple effect, reminds you that this program is about the testimony of the ones who have succeeded. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 04:12

You have called out a couple of interesting things in sharing just now. And the first thing that struck me was how you recognize that need when you came to Vietnam 2530 years ago with the street kids and the fact that people were living with less than $1 a day to be able to convert that need into a business idea is also the second challenge because a lot of us recognize there's a need, then how did you go about converting that into a structure whereby you can actually solve a problem? Big social problem, and at the same time, make it sustainable? Because we now know that KOTO enterprises have been around for at least 25 years now? Yeah. 25 years. Yes. So how did you go about doing that?

Jimmy Pham 05:01

A lot of people were very surprised that I didn't have a development background, I didn't have a hospitality background, I didn't have any of that. I'm just a tool guy, tourism background, who saw a need and acted on it. So, when I came here, when I met those street kids that ultimately changed my life, I made a decision to come back. And three months later, I had $200 in my pocket, I had a job as a tool leader, and a passion to make a difference that began the journey of the old fable, give a man a fish today, when you're young Doc, and you're very arrogant, and you think that you're not going to give money to NGOs, and you help on your own pocket. And that's what I did for three years. So this constant everywhere I see from Cambodia to Thailand, up in the hilltribe, kids that are impoverished, underserved, you give them money, and fish every day, you take them out to eat, and then you put them through English classes, without actually knowing the sense of the purpose of why you do and how the outcome but I never in my wildest dream are going to call it a dream is still a dream is that I started an organization that has such an incredible impact. On so many levels, it was actually three years of doing that and giving someone a fish and that transition from showing them how to fish come from those same kids that has taken me severely for a ride and told me that look, we trusted you now. So, we're going to tell you the truth from the horse's mouth. 

Jimmy Pham 06:20

And instead of giving up on them and all that kind of stuff one needs to do on their own reflection and saying That's right, because what I did was creating this dependency they have on me, right, so the next stage of our development was to build something more sustainable is to give him a fishing rod silicon fishing himself, and KOTO born out of that, furthermore, I it was never my intention to build a vocational training center. At that time, when street kids, you have two choices, you can fix bicycle, or you work in a factory, and I want to something different, I want to think outside the box. And how the restaurant happened is because I didn't have you know, a lot of money back in Australia that I can register as an NGO, I didn't have the contacts and all that kind of stuff, to be able to do all the things that NGO does at that time, NGOs, are like Oxfam, and save the children. And they'll have a lot of money, a lot of international backing. And this a simple man who wants to do something different. So, I started a restaurant because I thought hospitality is the most transferable skills, you can give someone that ultimately gives them a job, right. And in order to do that, they have to make mistakes, they have to drop the tray, they have to break the glasses, they have to make terrible milkshakes. And ultimately, that will give him the kind of real hands-on experience that can give him that job. And then launch it was that straightforward. And it wasn't very complicated. Oh, my God, I want to start this multi-million-dollar organization. So that helped 300 kids at any one time. It wasn't that we started with nine kids. And then we went on to 20. And then over the years, we built that up to the numbers that we have today. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 07:52

You talked about at least the passion to wanting to make a difference. You want to be the change you want to see in the world. We do a lot of work with people discovering who am I, as in my purpose. And I think that's actually your purpose. And you're really clear at that point what that was for you. And day in day out whether it was as a tour guide, before you decided that you wanted to come back and do that three, first part of the pilot that you did with the kids, whatever that got you up every day that had you continue even when you were disappointed or there wasn't enough money was probably I want to be the change I want to see in the world. Yes, so powerful.

Jimmy Pham 08:33

It is, it is. Can I tell you, after nearly 30 years doing these 25 years at KOTO, yes, I spoke to an MBA student from an American college, and one of the comments made was that you can see so obvious that you still talk with so much passion. And I truly believe that I'm the luckiest person, because I feel that 30 years, I found a job that I actually don't have to work. And that for me, I still love what I do. I love it with my life. And it's become another job for me is basically who I am and what I do when I had got so much joy from seeing that and trust me through COVID At the age of disruption, and all this podcast is titled, we have so many challenges, especially COVID That was that sign that tells you You've done enough. Let's go home, and you don't have to try anymore, because you helped you in that time over 1500 kids already, but when you plan something to see, you've just got to see it through and KOTO not that say where you can just go and leave it. So yeah, so it's the focus and the passion are still incredibly there. And I think that is very important. If you're going to do anything, whether it's all profit or not for profit.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 09:46

That's right, to be able to connect with our purpose and to keep engaging with that passionately. You've all you've obviously created many firsts with KOTO whether it was in a chat changing the way people think around vocational training, even confronting teaching people hospitality skills, which people assume that fine, you don't have to go and learn it, you just do it because you do it the way you do it at home, and then to actually creating the intersection between business and social work coming together as a social enterprise. So, when you look at the future, what's there for you?

Jimmy Pham 10:25

There's a saying by the very famous Ho Chi Minh, which is a big hero for people here, and it says, “Study, study some more and study forever. And learn some more and learn forever.” And for me, I grew up in poverty, with a very large family of two youngest, I was one of those people that you know, was not handsome that's inherited by my brother, the smart inherited by my older brother. And it is not a bad thing, which is one of those things where you are growing up, and you don't succeed very much. That was the probability that was the probability, and this is where you know, Asian families Doc right and predict your future and that structure your they get over here and, and I got my first university degree at 48. And I got my master’s at 50. And I got my doctorate on the ninth of April, at 52. Right at that stage of my life is no longer learning to get career, but it's learning to grow yourself. And it's important for me when I tell my kids at KOTO is that education, knowledge breaks the cycle of poverty. And I truly believe this is that you yourself have to be that example, that you say. So, if this is a guy who's the head of the organization has continued to learn, read books once a week and do the things that's to learn from other people. And that's thirst for knowledge. And then that's when you can actually sit down and say to someone, you should do that, right. But if you're a smoker, and you tell him not to smoke is really difficult, because you're a hypocrite. And that's the major importance, I'm very aware to be a good example. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 11:37

So, congratulations, first of all, Dr. Jimmy, on getting your honorary doctorate. That's really great, awesome. recognition by the community lifelong learning is now a necessary skill set for the future. Actually, it's been highlighted by many studies, that if we are not doing that, with the coming on of AI, human beings will become irrelevant. So, it's good. If we can take that on, you had started off by saying, don’t let your failures define you. And you're someone who took on that attitude. I feel that there are two mindsets, which are essential in today's age, and one is the entrepreneurial mindset. And the second one is a crisis really mindset whereby you deal with these failures and setback that life serves you because you have no choice. But then the question is, do you fight? Do you flee? Or do you freeze? So, you've had the opportunity to deal with failures and setbacks really powerfully because of the nature of work that you took on for the last 30 years? And I wanted you to perhaps share with us how do you look at setbacks or failure? What practices do you have that makes you think that it's not about giving up?

Jimmy Pham 13:15

You’re right. For me, resilience is going to be the key to overcoming any obstacles. If I have to look back on it 25 years, I can say that I'm constantly presented with crisis, or challenges. But along the way, through the journey, you learn that it's on a mindset and the attitude. And if you call it as, oh, my God, why may I’m doing good things? And why does it happen to me, then you let that kind of challenges define who you are, and then you are bound to make a lot of mistakes. But if the situation like this, you always have to keep calm, and you have to have a really good attitude, or saying that's a challenge, but it's also an opportunity. 

Jimmy Pham 13:56

And I'll give you a very specific example, during COVID, that really was shut down. The first one was the hospitality, which is where our kids do their practical training the tourism industry with over $1.5 million worth of revenue that literally went out the door overnight from our restaurants, right? Because we invest some you know, $10,000 for students in their journey with us to study free of charge. So that's why we have to come up with that kind of funds to be able to cover the operational costs or the debt was education when you're working with kids that actually don't have a home or don't have family it's really hard to say Oh, can you go home now and come back when the COVID thing is over? So, we've made a decision collectively to continue Koto school, but closer restaurant, and the powers that be and also the faith that within is that they are more important. If you see this as a family, Doctor, if you're unemployed, you're not going to go and pick your children outside and say, I'm sorry, what you want me to do, I don't have a job. So, what I do, but you just have to do you have to go and borrow money from your friends and your family. You have to put pride aside, so I can buy food for the kids and organza, and that's pretty much what happened to us. 

Jimmy Pham 15:05

We lost our training school, we lost our restaurant that we've been running for 17 years. And then we literally got moved from one place to the other. It got so bad I remember on this one particular day was 45 degrees outside, we moved to Echo Park, and they wouldn't register us because at that time, the peak of COVID was so bad that we took a whole bunch of kids 100 them because it sent all sorts of alarm bells so we can know where to go. So, I have to go and reach out to my friends and colleagues in the Westlake area, move back to Westlake divide them to seven houses to get through COVID. And to live. 

Jimmy Pham 15:41

And we were living from hand to mouth, why I mentioned the power to be, and this is a spiritual journey as well is that 1/3 of funding during COVID came from the alumni. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 15:52

Wow.

Jimmy Pham 15:53

And I'll give you one particular story, Dr. that I hold. At graduation, which we celebrate so well each year that we're so damn proud of them was one girl and she lost her job. She's also hospitality. She's an alumnus, she went home to have countryside. And on the way she stopped by Koto, the school and she had 12 eggs. That's all she has. But she thought it was really important. And I guess that kind of serve her value that and still to be able to think once helped others right. She stood at the gate and hesitated for over half an hour when she should give this egg or not and not be laughed at and be embarrassed and all that kind of stuff. I finally got the courage to give it to them their security and took off and I got the eggs from the security guy that was the most profound and the most moving thing that also summed up about this whole crisis resilient is that do-good things, things can happen and will happen. We got help that came out of the woodwork that we didn't expect. And we supply we saw a lot of opportunity KOTO prosper more than we did prior to COVID similar because we came out that we changed the business model, we changed our mindset, we got together as a team. And we don't take things for granted anymore. All that kind of stuff came out of that COVID have a crisis that nearly broke us going back about me being focused again and steering the ship through the most horrific weather. I don't know how I did that maybe it's true pure love. I kept calm throughout, we were in over our head didn't get to suppliers, but we just kept coming. And because the family needs to be fed first. That's it and everything was in order. Because we know what was important what we need to do, how to keep calm, and then to navigate through them. So, deal and still come out the other side with pride intact, and I had Hung Hai, Guys, we right then we just did what every human being a family would do. And that is to navigate this crisis.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 17:50

That's the best way to do it right, with altruism. And giving.

Jimmy Pham 17:56

None of the kids let us down and never left us when it was really tough. But we all say together, we stayed together, because that's the value. And as a culture we built.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 18:07

Thank you for sharing how in a crisis, we have challenges, but we can also have the opportunity. And in the case of KOTO, you had the chance to reset and to prioritize things and to maybe come up with this new business model, which is actually strengthened. And that's why you're now looking at how you're going to create that ecosystem, which supports its sustainability beyond it just being one entity of restaurants and training schools but have the support of the larger ecosystem. Where are you in your spiritual journey? And what is spirituality for you?

Jimmy Pham 18:43

I just went to this retreat from an incredible Indian man in America, and it is about shaking the world gently. And it's about how do we shift from the me to the wheat. It's something I've always done. But it's really nice to have that kindness of be in the presence of so many people who have that mindset who's going to work on themselves to make it more about the we of this world. And I've also been a part of the acumen productive leadership training and the foundry from that as well. So, there's always constant way to look at how we can be a part of this community of Changemakers. And that we can inspire but also together, we can be adaptive. It is very important that I don't go and continue this work forever and ever, answered, “It's just my job.” Our job for someone like me to go and do better for this world, but trying to inspire everyone to go and do a little bit collectively, they understand the value of that we're in a very fragile period in our history now, where everyone has to collectively grow organically over the years. 

Jimmy Pham 19:49

So, you have charity, and then you moved into CSR, and then you move to social enterprise and the next hot word is the ESG. environment, social governance where it's very important. Not everyone plays a part to our community and our planet and also to have transparency and accountability. So, I think it's crucial that we're continuing down that. And in order to do what we do; we have to be spiritually connected. I think that we can do it just because it's the right thing to do. And the right thing to do is come from a spiritual within you understand that you have to live your life to be kind. And I think that's always spiritually you have to work on that on yourself.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 20:30

That's profound. Say a little bit more about that. 

Jimmy Pham 20:33

I think kindness can overcome everything, kindness, in your interaction, everyday kindness in your thoughts. And there's so many things that can shift you so easily that I guess, only negativities around you. If you treat it and you resolve it, and you think it and you make this into a practice, I become a habit to be kind to treat by the kindness, because it comes with empathy, not just in your family, which is, you know, part of our Asian culture, but kindness and our community, kindness and how we interact and how we deal with each other and kindness and the things that we were given in this world by the highest being right. We're custodian to that to everything that we are now with everyone that we mean we have to treat with kindness, because that's a gift. It's your attitude towards things. It's not going to happen overnight, definitely. But if you work on it, and this is where the whole spiritual journey and self-improvement comes from within, if you understand why, at the end of the day, Dr. still serves you.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 21:32

And what's in it, for me is a better community who's there for me, right? So yeah, contribute first and then everything else will flow back. It's really great that you've decoded spirituality, from the perspective of integral of us being kind and being concerned about the collective so that we can have a better world recently, I did attend the meditation, silent meditation retreat, what really hit me or reminded me was maybe because I'm also going to be 60, next year,

Jimmy Pham 22:06

Too young.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 22:07

At least, the awareness about I am every day, getting closer to death or dying, right? Every day, you're moving closer there than you were yesterday. So, it helped me to prioritize things in life and to look at how I wanted to focus my work and my relationship and everything else in a different way. Because that's more pronounced now for yourself. If you knew that you were living one day closer towards death, then how would you live.

Jimmy Pham 22:36

There’s a saying that I often tell the kids, right? “Sing as if no one's listening, dance as if no one's watching, love as you never been heard before. And live as this is the last day of your life, live for the most full day possible.” And again, this takes practice. But every day, for me, it's so full of people that I meet along the way. And the who I learned from, as well. And when you have that kind of sense of accomplishment at the end of the day is also good to have that affirmation. And then in the morning is to have a little bit of that time to reflect and meditate and to understand and give you that little 10 minutes or half an hour, there's yourself as well. Again, I said this as though as I've been doing it, I is a hidden missing from me, but I'm still working on that as well. It takes a lot of practice. But we know this through various books and studies. That's the way to improve yourself and have a longer life enjoyable, happier life, when you're happy that you can be kind. That's right.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 23:35

And do you think it's possible to live a simple life? And how does it look like?

Jimmy Pham 23:39

That's a very good question as it is a simple question, but it has a lot of depths and layers. So, there's a life that you currently been inherited, as a pro for me is, I can't say that I'm sorry. I got to look after me now. And so, I want everything to be stress free, and things like that. It's not possible. But you can make the best of a worse situation by having a simple mind and just not complicate things where you're heading. And the plan that you have for a simple life is absolutely something that you should work towards, for me is that cabin in the woods in Canada, and the husky and go and teach somewhere at a university and just have a very simple life, go to church, a man of faith as well. And to be able to have that kind of his life in the last chapter of your life. I don't want to look back at my work to say, I've been so busy that doing the things and live my life that one simply because of my work because I try to do everything I can while I'm working as well. So, I do have a simple life. But I couldn't be simpler, if that makes sense. Of course. Yes. Yeah. Simple Life for me is not something that you love busy with anything. A simple life for me is something that is fruitful and is meaningful. And your day is filled with joy and surrounded by so many things for you to learn and grow as well. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 24:55

It's also about being in the present and enjoying what's here, right now in front of you.

Jimmy Pham 25:01

Exactly, 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 25:01

Yeah. Because that's all that we have, right? Memories, the past and what we imagine is in the future. But right now, what we can touch, and influence is really in the present. So, if you had to use three words to describe thriving, how would you describe it? 

Jimmy Pham 25:18

It’s constantly learning be able to meet challenges and change and mindset to become opportunity thriving is that you are better than you were yesterday, I say every day is that you become that better person that's thriving. So, it has to be the inner tribe in which also an outer striving, a lot of people define driving as something that defining the career or the status. That's not for me, I've been from a in a working that you just have to be able to improve every day. And if you're that 1% better than you were yesterday, then you're already there. 

Jimmy Pham 25:18

When you’re thriving, you’re constantly learning be able to meet challenges and change and mindset to become opportunity. Thriving is that you are better than you were yesterday, I say every day. It’s that you become that better person, that's thriving. So, it has to be the inner drive in which also an outer striving, a lot of people define thriving as something that’s defining the career or the status. That's not for me, I've been from an inner working that you just have to be able to improve every day. And if you're that 1% better than you were yesterday, then you're already there. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 25:18

What's your take on Sustainability, everyone is talking about it from the SDG goals, we talked about the ESG aspect of even the social enterprise, but you've now actually co-founded another enterprise, specifically looking at food waste. So maybe you can share a little bit about that.

Jimmy Pham 26:11

There's a very big NGO in Australia led about this incredible woman called Ronni Kahn. And it's called OzHarvest is now operating four-five countries now, and every season Australia as well. They'd nourish over a million people every year through the food that they rescue, she single-handedly changed the bill in Australia, that giving is not a liability, so people can give freely without actually being sued. So that means it gives them more incentives like we know in Australia, when you give money to charity, it's tax deductible when you have that policymakers change that so bill that gives you more incentives to be able to give more there's a woman in the OzHarvest, who is Vietnamese by heritage names Louise Tran and I set up Viet Harvest so we did this about a year and a half ago, is now operating in two cities our partners are Vietnam Airlines, IHG, Pizza 4P's, Classic Fine Food etc. etc. So we rescued food too currently in stage one, we deliver to over 20 charities now that will be able to be nourished, the next step is to be able to find a location or use volunteers and to be able to get and convert that into food, proper food, and actually sell it to the underserved, like the construction workers to taxi drivers, all that kind of stuff, who usually typically eat pork bun or a bread roll for so cheap, but you can have the same amount of money. 

Jimmy Pham 27:36

But this time you get food, you get rice, you get me to get to a restaurant and get nourished. But every time you eat one, one child gets one for free. So, the whole country, the adults and the children will grow up in this system where they'll get nourish. The other part of the mission is to educate people because I'm not sure that Vietnam is the second food because food waste in this region, and 1/3 of each house are a waste food. And when we waste food is billions in Australia is like nearly three billion for that the economy waste, not to mention the landfill the emissions, offset emissions and our cancer. And then people are still going hungry. And that's the whole sad thing about this whole thing. So, it's the environment. When we're talking, you talk specifically about the underserved on the street kids in the youth development, urban poverty law that you're talking about beet harvest is everyone's problem. It doesn't discriminate whether you're rich, or you're poor, your man or your female, everyone should concern about our planet and how to be able to rectify that, or use recycle and food that doesn't go to waste. So, education plays a very important part. So that's what we do. We rescue food, and we use the power of volunteerism, and then we redistribute that good quality surplus food. So people think when we talk about food waste, I'll make the thing that we picked up on scraps of buffets, and people have a lot of reservation, when it comes to that by slot is this we're talking about fruits that have surplus oranges that we can pick up and mix oranges, or you go to a supermarket that has nearly another month before it's expired. But we move that along and then distribute so it's perfectly good food, otherwise it will go into landfill. That's fine.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 29:17

Okay, great. I wanted to ask you some quick, fun questions. The first one is, what's your favorite book?

Jimmy Pham 29:23

My favorite book? I would say, “The monk who sold his Ferrari”. Oh, that's a really good book. He's a corporate lawyer. He just has a court session, he fell down and collapsed. And it was a wakeup call because he overworked and all that kind of stuff. And then he retreated to the mountain. I think it was in Tibet or Nepal or somewhere. And then he came back six years later as a monk, and he talks about this whole value systems of what's important life and things like that. I have a list of books to read before I kick the bucket and it's 50 books that I need to be disciplined to start reading. So I bought myself a Kindle thing that I can just not have to physically, doing electronically.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 30:06

And what's your favorite travel destination?

Jimmy Pham 30:09

I look for every special thing in every destination. I go to an effort that once a year I try and somewhere different. So, for my birthday this year went to Mexico City, and culture and art is pretty amazing. Of course, I love Mexican food as well. So you go for the people, you go for the culture, you go for the food, every destination holds a special place and unlearning things. So, there's no one destination for me. I still got another 100 destinations to go.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 30:39

I hear you. If you can have dinner with anyone in the world. Who would it be? 

Jimmy Pham 30:43

Wow. That's a fun question. There are so many people, I will say my dead brother. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 30:49

Yeah.

Jimmy Pham 30:49

Him and I grew up, he was very opposite to my values. He was born during the war. And because he's so cute, and he looks Western. During the war. My mom had to sell a lot of stuff and have used his cuteness to sell to feed his brothers and sisters, which led me but when he grew up for him, everything has to be Louis Vuitton and big houses and fancy cars. It has to be luxury all the way. works for it. Of course, it was a very different sets of values that he holds, he passed away from cancer.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 31:22

Oh, sorry to hear that.

Jimmy Pham 31:23

He has four children. But they always could go to private schools to get picked up by BMW and things like that. Right? It closer to his death when he found out he had cancer. And on the contrary, his wife divorced him. He lost the house that he built. He asked his children to live in a rented house and none of them would. And it was a very tragic last few years of his life. He broke, he didn't have any money. But for me, I never really understood that I was always very angry to him. Even when in hospital, I came back to Australia thinking I go and visit him. But I never had the courage to, still harbor the anger. So, I never really say goodbye to him. That dinner that I would love to have with him is to say, “I do love you. I'm sorry that I didn't get to say that when you're alive.” But yeah, and it's so important to not harbor anger because it just destroys relationships.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 32:14

That's right. Yeah, I hear you. Sorry about that. So, if you can have any superpower? It looks like you have lots of superpower.

Jimmy Pham 32:23

That if I can have a superpower, I think the brain like Tony Stark of Ironman. He's so smart. He doesn't have a superpower. Because he's been in an accident. He created things through his geniuses, right? Yes, he can make things happen, that the power of the mind is super important. It can take you to anywhere you want. And if you utilize that to more and more each day, and the power of the brain. And this is the whole thing we talked about earlier, talk about learning and continual learning to improve yourself. And I think that will be my silver bullet. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 32:57

They say that human beings only utilize 2% of the brain. That's right, one more percent is going to be so much more. And just to conclude, what's the best advice that you've ever received? 

Jimmy Pham 33:09

Stand On. If you ever get tired, whatever it is, stand for who you are, stand for your beliefs, stand for whenever people try and knock you down. You just stand and try to be that courageous person that you can be and if you get tired, then rest a bit. But then you continue to stand. It tells you who you are, who you can become the kindness of people around you will give you the kind of respect because you're always present.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 33:40

Thank you for sharing your life, your thoughts, your inspiration, and it's been really a learning journey for me to spend this hour with you. I've learned so much, so thank you, Jimmy.

Jimmy Pham 33:51

Thank you. And I look forward to meeting up with you at KOTO and we can catch up then.