Tune in for a dialogue on entrepreneurship, crisis resilience, and the pursuit of a thriving future in Vietnam's dynamic entrepreneurial scene.
Dr. Ramesh chats with Mr. Tran Tri Dung, program manager of the Swiss Entrepreneurship Program, which facilitates a supportive entrepreneurial ecosystem, increasing the readiness of innovative entrepreneurs to start and grow their businesses.
Dung offers us insights on the unique characteristics of Vietnamese entrepreneurs and discusses the critical role that "supply side" players - such as incubator, accelerator, mentor and investor networks - play in facilitating startup success.
Top 5 Takeaways from this Podcast:
Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host, Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible & Founder of Impact Velocity
Guest Speaker: Mr. Tran Tri Dung, Program Manager of Swiss Entrepreneurship Program (Swiss EP)
Tune in, and together we'll be Thriving in the Age of Disruption.
Tune in for a dialogue on entrepreneurship, crisis resilience, and the pursuit of a thriving future in Vietnam's dynamic entrepreneurial scene.
Dr. Ramesh chats with Mr. Tran Tri Dung, program manager of the Swiss Entrepreneurship Program, which facilitates a supportive entrepreneurial ecosystem, increasing the readiness of innovative entrepreneurs to start and grow their businesses.
Dung offers us insights on the unique characteristics of Vietnamese entrepreneurs and discusses the critical role that "supply side" players - such as incubator, accelerator, mentor and investor networks - play in facilitating startup success.
Top 5 Takeaways from this Podcast:
Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host, Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible & Founder of Impact Velocity
Guest Speaker: Mr. Tran Tri Dung, Program Manager of Swiss Entrepreneurship Program (Swiss EP)
Tune in, and together we'll be Thriving in the Age of Disruption.
To learn more about the entrepreneurial mindset with Dr. Ramesh, get your copy of The Big Jump into Entrepreneurship 2.0 on Amazon.com or www.Dr-Ramesh.com.
If you're interested in building crisis resilience, Dr. Ramesh will be launching her new book on the crisis ready mindset - Make sure you follow Dr. Ramesh on LinkedIn so that you’ll get her new book alert!
Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host, Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible & Founder of Impact Velocity
Guest Speaker: Mr. Tran Tri Dung, Program Manager of Swiss Entrepreneurship Program (Swiss EP)
Tune in, and together we'll be Thriving in the Age of Disruption.
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Ho Lai Yun
Welcome to Thriving in the Age of Disruption with Dr. Ramesh.Today, we have for you a dialogue on entrepreneurship, crisis resilience, and the pursuit of a thriving future in Vietnam's dynamic entrepreneurial scene.
Mr. Tran Tri Dung, manages the Swiss Entrepreneurship Program in Hanoi and Central Region, to facilitate a supportive entrepreneurial ecosystem, increasing the readiness of innovative entrepreneurs to start and grow their businesses.
Dung offers us insights on the unique characteristics of Vietnamese entrepreneurs and discusses the critical role that "supply side" players - such as incubator, accelerator, mentor and investor networks - play in facilitating startup success.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Thriving in the Age of Disruption podcast series. I'm excited to have this dialogue with you today. Could you introduce yourself to our listeners?
Tran Tri Dung
Thank you, Dr. Ramesh. I’m very honoured! About myself, I'm currently doing a very important job. I love the job I'm doing right now so much. I am currently the program manager for Swiss Entrepreneurship Program in Vietnam, and I'm in charge to accelerate the ecosystem in Hanoi and the Central Region of the country. My investment to the program is 10 years. I am an entrepreneur, involved in understanding about how to support entrepreneurs in new ways, and how I can implement. And I can see things change, people change. And actually, the change positive.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Wonderful, I'm really intrigued by what you do because you're an entrepreneur, who is now working in promoting and developing the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Vietnam, through the Swiss Entrepreneurship Program. What was the hypothesis or the problem that program developers identified when you first started this?
Tran Tri Dung
So, we start with the hypothesis that there's always an ecosystem for the entrepreneurs, whether there’re programs, whether or not some government (departments) want to support entrepreneurs or not, they are there. So, what they need is that the ecosystem helps the entrepreneur to do what they want to do, faster, easier, cheaper. We deploy an indirect approach. The program tries to build capability. Support organisations like incubator, accelerator, your mentor network and your investor network. And now even we worked in the university and venture capital firm. And we believe that by improving their capability, when entrepreneurs seek support organisations, we deliver better service. And with that better service, the entrepreneur will gain better benefit. On the main side, there are many entrepreneurs; Meanwhile, the program is always limited. So, we try to focus on the supply side.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Right. If you can also share a little bit more about the Vietnamese incubation and startup space, how will you describe it? Is it expanding? Thriving? Is it shrinking? Stagnant?
Tran Tri Dung
Eight years ago, the first time I visit an innovation space in Hanoi on the rooftop of the building, and I had to climb up five floors. They are on the top. The reason is because, on the top, the rental fee is low. And it was run by three very young founders, already from university, and they have one mentor. He's an American who came to Vietnam, do business and somehow, like introduced entrepreneurial spirit with the young people and they make it happen. So, what I just tell you is the story of Hatch Incubator. They’re one of the pioneer ecosystem player in Vietnam.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
The startup journey, whereby you start a business, scale it, and then, even in a very short time, the founders can exit, and someone else can be running the business - It reminds me of my own early entry into the dotcom space in 2000. The business that we set up, we raised millions of dollars, looked at IPO and then ended up liquidating it all within 30 months, short time, but it's like we live 30 years in a traditional business environment.
Tran Tri Dung
Hatch is like the first generation of ecosystem player. And then after that, is many incubators. Incubation business is really tough. Really difficult to make money from that. Entrepreneurs now are more sophisticated, and more experienced. They can learn a lot by themselves. The incubator needs to be of some value. I just returned from Danang, where I meet two founders who are like 10 years in their own business. They make not a rich profit but some good money and they think about opening an incubation program specifically for their own movement. For example the agriculture business incubator or FinTech incubator, and I expect we will see more specialised incubator.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
The people who are running these incubators are successful entrepreneurs and businessmen, and so they know what it takes to make a business sustainable. They also have their own domain knowledge, whether it's in AI or tourism or in some other area. The new startups can leverage on those extensive networks that they have, as well as the deep knowledge to be successful very quickly in that very specific vertical in terms of entrepreneurship.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
When I look at today's world, a lot of disruption. And I think that we need to have two kinds of mindset. The first mindset is an entrepreneurial mindset. The second is a crisis-ready mindset. By entrepreneurial mindset, I mean you're somebody who is resourceful in life. That means you have a problem, you can actually define the problem very clearly. You are someone able to take risks and deal with uncertainty in a powerful way. The most important thing is you are able to create value, whether it's for yourself or your other stakeholders. Everyone should have an entrepreneurial mindset. It's not just for people who want to run a business. In your own experience as an entrepreneur, as someone who brings in all these resources to the Swiss Entrepreneurship Program from abroad, as well as working with entrepreneurs and with people who are not entrepreneurs, how would you look at the entrepreneurial mindset? Do you think that young Vietnamese people are actually starting to be more entrepreneurial in all areas of their life?
Tran Tri Dung
I believe that is your spirit, anyone who have an entrepreneurial mindset is an entrepreneur. You do not need to be a business owner running your own business to be entrepreneur. Even you just a staff member of a company, but you still have that mindset, it’s okay. Or you are a government officer, we call that “bureaucrat entrepreneur”.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
That's an interesting word. It's counterintuitive, right? But actually, that will make them a lot more effective and more customer-centric.
Tran Tri Dung
You know in administration, sometimes you do the good thing but you get some no good result. You have to go like break through some barrier and you cannot make everyone happy, but they still do that because they believe that the values they create, they're brave to do that. That is exactly the answer for me.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
I get excited when I used to come to Vietnam because I see that kind of energy that the people have, that it's very entrepreneurial. It's no surprise, therefore, that when people look at Southeast Asia, Vietnam has got the highest growth rate and the best economic forecast. It's got to do with the people who are in Vietnam and their attitude towards entrepreneurship.
Tran Tri Dung
About one week ago, I got a question from the global community. They asked me about characteristics of the Vietnamese entrepreneur. Entrepreneurial mindset is somehow inside every Vietnamese, resourceful and resilient.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
That's right. In late 2000 actually, when I first set up my technology startup, I also started the first incubator in Singapore, which was called iAxil incubator. Coming to Vietnam and being involved with the startup and the incubation community has been like coming home and getting connected back to the ecosystem. Being part of the action here has been very enjoyable as well as meaningful for me. You're one of them, who made my access into this ecosystem easy by inviting and introducing me to the different players. So, thank you for that.
I look at crisis as a setback, or sometimes it can be a failure. And for most people, they get stopped. They don't know what to do. In fact, they are stuck. What we can see as entrepreneurs ourselves, it is in those moments that we have to take action because that is that live-or-die moment, right? Share an example of your own personal crisis, how you went through that, and how you've been able to develop resilience for yourself.
Tran Tri Dung
First crisis I’m thinking about is Covid-19. After Covid-19, we have big crack in Vietnam. Entrepreneurial mindset - that mindset become more critical. I have no client, we need to work out with Sales, it will be something you need to work out with HR, with Production, with Finance. Therefore we need to be resourceful and skilful in solving problem.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
So, what you're pointing to is that to be a successful entrepreneur, we need to have a crisis-ready mindset, even though it can be all-consuming and every single department is on fire, so to speak, you don't give up. You’ll take care of this problem, one by one. That means successful entrepreneurs have the ability to adapt and pivot, and the crisis becomes an opportunity for them to do that. They know also how to make the trade-off, how to prioritise and what to work on immediately, so that they can stabilise the situation.
In your own personal life, is there something that you've been practising that helps you to be cantered and grounded when you have a crisis?
Tran Tri Dung
This is more challenging in your personal life when you went through crisis. I think I went through two years ago, it's a matter of life and death. I have some kind of healing mantra to make me feel better. Have you ever heard about that? It is a Hawaiian mantra. Only four sentence, but you need to repeat to yourself - I thank you. I love you. I am sorry. And please forgive me.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Wow.
Tran Tri Dung
In my family, all Buddhist follower - My wife, my children, my mom. And one thing I see, and it’s related to entrepreneurship, is totally responsibility. Whatever happens to you, whether it's good thing, no good thing, it's because of you.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
What I can hear is that you're studying Buddhism and looking at your spiritual practices from a practice perspective. Thank you for sharing that because it is so true, when we look at the universal principles of all religion, it comes from a shared common value system. And that's what makes us human beings connected to each other. The more we can tap into that, the more connected we are, and then we will have a society which is working together as a collective. What do you think about living a simple life? Is that possible?
Tran Tri Dung
People look at me and can say, “Oh, Dung lives a simple life.” I have a motorbike, taking my son to school. It’s five minutes away but he doesn't want to walk. And I'm only travel with the mix between bus and taxi. And you can say that it's simple. But you know, for me, it's more like economic reason. I can spend much less, and the benefit for me almost the same. I used to have two cars at the same time, when I run my own business, but now I'm working with the program and I travel a lot. Even if I have a car right now, I need to think about how to use it. But I don't have a good reason to really use it.
Tran Tri Dung
Well, I don't know whether it is or simple or whether it is just like the nature whether you need it or not. I may be more sophisticated, not necessarily like expensive. For example, I have coffee myself at home. And the coffee often very, very good. I know the grower, I know who roasts it, he’s like my good friend. And I don't know whether it's simple or not. Because you can get like instant coffee, and that's okay. There is instant coffee, but I need very, very fine coffee.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
I think what you're pointing to is to have the simple pleasures in participating in life. So, it's easy just to go to a coffee shop and have a coffee. It's convenient. Yes, you'll pay a lot of money, but you can buy equally expensive coffee, take the moment in a meditative reflection to make that coffee and to enjoy it. That is a simple life to enjoy and be in the present. How would you describe thriving?
Tran Tri Dung
The lesson I learned is it is dangerous time when everything done well, be careful. When you run the business, everything good, you feel like, okay, I'm invincible. Be careful. There will be something very bad happen to you.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Right, don't be complacent.
Tran Tri Dung
Yeah. So, I want to use the wisdom from the Torah of the Jewish people; it’s wise to be humble. So whenever you feel, okay, I'm strong, I'm so good at this, at that, I can do a lot of things, it's the time you really need to tell yourself, “Calm down, there are a lot of things you don't know!”
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
That's right, I love that. It is wise to be humble.
In our work, we say Sustainability is the ongoing thriving of a living system. What is it for you?
Tran Tri Dung
So I believe in the concept that Thriving and Sustainability, they go together. You have a comfortable life, a happy life and you want to maintain it forever. I consider it is, I am blessed. I receive the blessing. And if I want to continue receiving the blessing from God, I need to do the good thing for the society. I have one American professor, and she came to Vietnam in early 1990s. And she wrote a book about Vietnamese, “When I came to this world, the world is beautiful, I want the world to be more beautiful when I leave.”
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
And I guess that is the essence of Sustainability, right? To leave it more beautiful than when we came here, for the next generation.
What I'm going to do now is ask you some questions. You have to answer me very quickly, okay?
What's your favourite book?
Tran Tri Dung
A good book is the book that helps me to think. The Innovative Leader - I just read it one time, but it’s my favourite because I make money from reading the book.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Sometimes, that's the best way to know that the book has brought us value. And it's the same for me, too. Sometimes, when I read books, I get an idea that alters how I look at life. And what's your favourite travel destination?
Tran Tri Dung
Hoi An in the central region, you can fly from Hanoi. One hour… 90 minutes’ flight, and it is small town, quiet, beach is nice. The people are very friendly.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Okay, I'll put it down in my list of travel destination. If you can have dinner with anyone, who will it be?
Tran Tri Dung
My wife.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Do you have dinner with her most nights?
Tran Tri Dung
Most nights, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
And what is special about having dinner with her?
Tran Tri Dung
We really have lots of topics to discuss. You know, she also works in entrepreneurial ecosystem. We have a lot of the same problem, so we discuss about work, and philosophy.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Very meaningful relationship to have, where you can enjoy talking to your wife about your work and your life together, right?
Tran Tri Dung
We believe that we are soulmates.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
What's your favourite song?
Tran Tri Dung
Hallelujah.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Okay, and what is the most unusual food you have you ever tried?
Tran Tri Dung
Snake.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Really? And if you can have any superpower, what will it be?
Tran Tri Dung
Superpower? I am very scared having superpowers.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
With great power comes great responsibility, I got it! So, what's the best advice that you've ever received?
Tran Tri Dung
It's more like when I wasin a very bad situation, I'm worried, I'm concerned, someone that tells me, “No worry. Keep your faith.”
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Mr Dung, thank you so much for being a great guest speaker today with us.
Tran Tri Dung
Dr. Ramesh, thank you, bye.
Ho Lai Yun
Thank you, Dr. Ramesh and Mr. Dung for giving us a glimpse into the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Vietnam and how that drives startup success.
Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur or investor, looking for inspiration to overcome the challenges in your life, or simply curious about the stories that shape the Changemakers of our world, this podcast series is your gateway to a world of insight and inspiration. Be sure to subscribe to the Thriving in the Age of Disruption podcast, or follow Dr. Ramesh on LinkedIn and other social media so you too become a part of Dr. Ramesh’s thriving network.