In this episode, Dr. Ramesh and Venture Builder Goh Chew Lam (CL) decode the DNA of successful startups. We explore the intricate journey from ideation to thriving business, emphasising an entrepreneurial and crisis-resilient mindset and qualities that propel these startups to success.
Startups are a blend of ambition, innovation, and resilience, with founders navigating a challenging path to growth. Investors seek founders and endeavours that not only offer groundbreaking ideas but also exhibit qualities signalling long-term success.
Join us Dr. Ramesh and CL as we delve into the founder's vision and the investor's perspective, providing valuable insights for both aspiring entrepreneurs and investors seeking the next big opportunity.
Top 5 Takeaways from this Podcast:
Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host, Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible & Founder of Impact Velocity
Guest Speaker: Goh Chew Lam (CL), Venture Builder and Managing Partner of Blue InCube Ventures, CEO & Co-founder of Natural Trace
Tune in, and together we'll be Thriving in the Age of Disruption.
In this episode, Dr. Ramesh and Venture Builder Goh Chew Lam (CL) decode the DNA of successful startups. We explore the intricate journey from ideation to thriving business, emphasising an entrepreneurial and crisis-resilient mindset and qualities that propel these startups to success.
Startups are a blend of ambition, innovation, and resilience, with founders navigating a challenging path to growth. Investors seek founders and endeavours that not only offer groundbreaking ideas but also exhibit qualities signalling long-term success.
Join us Dr. Ramesh and CL as we delve into the founder's vision and the investor's perspective, providing valuable insights for both aspiring entrepreneurs and investors seeking the next big opportunity.
Top 5 Takeaways from this Podcast:
Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host, Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible & Founder of Impact Velocity
Guest Speaker: Goh Chew Lam (CL), Venture Builder and Managing Partner of Blue InCube Ventures, CEO & Co-founder of Natural Trace
Tune in, and together we'll be Thriving in the Age of Disruption.
To learn more about the entrepreneurial mindset with Dr. Ramesh, get your copy of The Big Jump into Entrepreneurship 2.0 on Amazon.com or www.Dr-Ramesh.com.
If you're interested in building crisis resilience, Dr. Ramesh will be launching her new book on the crisis ready mindset - Make sure you follow Dr. Ramesh on LinkedIn so that you’ll get her new book alert!
Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host, Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible & Founder of Impact Velocity
Guest Speaker: Goh Chew Lam (CL), Venture Builder and Managing Partner of Blue InCube Ventures, CEO & Co-founder of Natural Trace
Tune in, and together we'll be Thriving in the Age of Disruption.
#EntrepreneurialMindset #Singapore #CLGoh #Dr. RameshRamachandra #TheBigJumpintoEntrepreneurship #CrisisResilience #TalentLeadershipCrucible #ImpactVelocity #Thriving #AgeofDisruption #VentureBuilder #CEO #Founder #BlueInCube #NaturalTrace #MMI #Robotics #AdvancedManufacturing #Logistics #SupplyChain #Healthcare #Foodtech #Cleantech
Ho Lai Yun 00:00
Welcome to Thriving in the Age of Disruption. In this podcast episode, Dr. Ramesh taps into the rich experience of Venture Builder Mr. Goh Chew Lam, also known as CL Goh, who’s the Managing Partner of Blue InCube, and the CEO & Co-founder of Natural Trace. Together, they decode the DNA of successful startups, and explore the intricate journey from ideation to thriving business, with an emphasis on the importance of an entrepreneurial and crisis-resilient mindset and qualities that propel these startups to success.
Startups are a blend of ambition, innovation, and resilience, and founders typically find themselves navigating a challenging path to growth. Investors will seek founders and endeavours that not only offer groundbreaking ideas but also exhibit certain qualities signalling long-term success.
So do join Dr. Ramesh and CL as we delve into the founder's vision and the investor's perspective. For both aspiring entrepreneurs and investors seeking the next big opportunity, we hope this conversation will offer you valuable insights.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra. 01:09
Welcome to the Thriving in the Age of Disruption podcast series CL. I'm excited to have this conversation with you, and I thought that we could start off by having you introduce yourself.
CL Goh
Thank you, Ramesh, for interest in interviewing me, and again appreciate your time. I'm a born-bred Singaporean. I’m enjoying my late 50s, working with startups in the technology and advanced manufacturing space. I came from a family of small SME businessmen and graduated with a double-E degree. I joined the hard disk drive industry in the 90s and founded my equipment company in my 30s, two decades ago. And I'm fortunate to have worked with some of the most respected corporate and business leaders in the industry. I'm now managing partner of Blue InCube Ventures, specialty industrial B2B venture builder and investor working with founders. And we are also fortunate to have Enterprise Singapore as a partner. That's basically what I'm doing.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Share a little bit about yourself. Personally,
CL Goh
I'm an avid golfer. My wife, Shirley and me, we have three kids. Our daughter, 29 years old, is a doctor based in Auckland, New Zealand. My second daughter she's actually a junior creative art director in a multinational advertising firm. And then my boy EJ is actually going to Army.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Wonderful.
CL Goh
So, it's been a fun journey so far.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra. 02:30
I wanted to ask you about venture building. And what does that really mean?
CL Goh
Venture building, it's actually not new; I would look at it differently because we started as, actually, angel investors after I left corporate world, and I started angel investing. And then I discovered that there is no fun putting money and then not knowing, not being involved, and not being able to work with the team. And I've really liked engagement, like what I had before, B2B dealing with businesses. And I felt that when I started working with some of these startups, B2B is a very different space. I think B2C is one where there are youth, and the current trend of things matters a lot. B2B, we find that the startups, because of their limited working experience, they may not be able to access C-level or even achieve the hygiene factor. Why would a customer procure from a startup, and how to deal with those hygiene factors? So, we felt that this is where our experience could make a difference. And so that's why we, over time, consolidate some of those investments that we made as an angel investor and then group them under Blue InCube Ventures. Our partners are essentially very focused on what we can do as a value-add to the ventures. We hope that we could improve the chances of success for the ventures we work with. We have recently also discovered change in trends. Because of the business transformation. We look at venture building not solely from a startup perspective, but we felt that there are struggling traditional business, also trying to transform themselves. And those mindsets that is required are actually quite natural for startup, right? Because I'm also doing corporate advisory or M&A activities for some mature industries, we felt that they're actually doing the same thing, agile thinking and trying to rethink the industry. So, I think that's pretty exciting for me.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 04:33
It is actually a very interesting time right now in Singapore, especially since the first wave of businesses, whether they are small, medium size, they would be all coming up for succession planning now, to the next-gen, and some of them don't necessarily want to hand over to their family members, some of them are anyway corporatised. Finding the next generation to take over would be an appropriate time. But that also requires then the handing over of the networks and real expertise that is in someone's head and might not be actually captured anywhere in the business processes, because companies in the past might not have captured them in knowledge management and other tools. Do you deal with such traditional companies as well?
CL Goh
Yes, of course. But I think as with all startup, you have to start with the founders or the team that are willing to change. I think it is very difficult for us to try to make them change. I think the mindset of change is certainly one where we could help. Sometimes, I joke that I can change SMEs, I cannot make a “towkay” (colloquial term for “boss”) become someone that he is not. “How do I transform my companies?” Right? It's not so much that they as individuals, I think as long as they can decouple that, then I think we have a fair chance of working right. Decoupling is the tough part, right? The coupling between the entrepreneur and the company that is founded is probably something that was quite unique from my journey because I always decouple I always encourage my customers to do business with me, the company, not just me as an individual. That kind of helps how I organise and look at things.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 06:10
Oh, very interesting. Singaporean companies can have a fixation almost to grants, and if there are no grants, they don't want to do any work, right? To think about the future and to move ahead.
CL Goh
I take pride in that over the years, I've actually not built businesses dependent on grants. But obviously, at the right time, during the COVID crisis, that’s where government help becomes very important. We’re talking about the survival of a business. So, I think that's when it makes sense. But every time I go to a roundtable, sometimes the traditional companies will always ask for incentives, they will ask for labour relief. To me, when you start with that mindset, you start not being able to improve, go forward, right? But you have to realise that we are competing in a global industry. That's why a business plan built around grants, is a good bonus to have, but we don't think highly about that, yeah.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
How I define entrepreneurial mindset, I say that it's a mindset where one is being resourceful in life. So you're able to define your problem and define it correctly. Number two, is that you're able to take risks and manage uncertainty. And lastly, the ability to create value, which is not just for yourself, and not just financial, but also for all the stakeholders, and in other aspects. So, you've been an entrepreneur, you're now working with entrepreneurs. And when you look at your own journey and how you navigated the ups and downs, what is it that you want to share with our listeners about entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial mindset?
CL Goh
I came from a family of humble and small businessmen and businesswomen. So, going into business is quite natural. I remember my mom, a Cantonese lady, is good in business. She said that, “If you start early, you can afford to fail twice.”
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
That's the first time I heard that.
CL Goh
So that's when I was actually really contemplating whether to start my company; I was already quite independent at 16 years old, I was studying in Toronto and in the US for four, five years. And then again, subsequently starting work in multinational, as an engineer responsible for a lot of stuff, I think what is important is actually being curious. And being willing to take more, especially during the early part of your career, you really have nothing to lose. Whether you are thinking of entrepreneurial or actually trying to do well, I think better do it there. But I also told my founders today they're quite fortunate, right, because most of them are highly qualified, they have PhD and Masters. I say, “Your safety net is pretty high.” So, I wouldn't worry about you falling. But imagine being an entrepreneur 30 years ago, when you fail, essentially, there goes your career as well. So, it is quite different. So, my motivation to them is, “If your safety net is pretty high. And three, five years is something that you could afford.” I spent a few years of my savings to finance my own business. I went for honeymoon with my wife, and she left earlier because I have to stay in US for technology transfer when I start my company. So, I think these are the attributes that I like to see from an entrepreneur, right? Money doesn't create those motivations, right? It's really that you are really interested in something. So that's really what I look out for.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 09:36
Excellent. So, in your journey, you saw that it was an advantage to having started early. And number two, was to be curious about the world and what's happening and changing. Three, was also to take more responsibility, especially when you're young and early on in your corporate life or in whichever area that you're working. Because then you are just learning. You pointed out something interesting that thirty years ago, for a lot of people, the safety net was really not there, especially since we may not be so highly educated when we started off on the entrepreneurial journey. But now, with lots of these tech founders who have got their PhDs, actually it’s no sweat because if they fail, the can go back. So it's almost like taking three to five years off to go and explore and be independent. And to be willing to make your own personal sacrifices, whether it is to put your own money in or to give up, like you said, your honeymoon period at some point to stay on in the US to do a technology transfer, because that was what you had to do as part of the business. Thank you for highlighting some of the things that, as an entrepreneur, you've had to challenge yourself. But I love what your mother said about, “If you start early, you can fail twice.” My mother tells me that failure is the pillar in the house of success. So, in some ways, I think both of us have a positive or empowering context around failure; It’s no big deal; It’s something you have to do; And if you had to deal with it, just deal with it.
CL Goh
Yes. And you have the capacity to do so when you're young.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
That's right because you don't have that many responsibilities and other burdens that you have to deal with when you are much older.
CL Goh
Just to add, one of the things I observe is that the opportunity costs that entrepreneurs see becomes very real, right, because he could start the venture by thirty, and I say when he reach closer to 40; I think opportunity cost among the peers weighs on them. It is something that we have to take note of, because they'll be comparing against similar PhDs, may be director somewhere, doing some high-paying job, and they would have spent the last seven years working on their ventures. So, the opportunity cost is also an area that they will have to consider.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 11:49
That's right. So, if you are trying to become an entrepreneur today and you're highly educated, then there is a push factor. Unless, of course, you're really motivated to become an entrepreneur.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
This whole “Thriving in the Age of Disruption” (podcast) was about what can be the critical mindsets that we need to have to survive change and to thrive actually. And I thought that one was the entrepreneurial mindset. And the second one is actually crisis-ready mindset. And I define crisis as a kind of setback or failure that we experience. But in that moment, when we experienced it, what do we do? Do we just sit back? Do we freeze? Or do we take action? Share with us how you've dealt with crisis in your life. And what have been the practices that you have adopted that have been instrumental in having you be calm and collected? We've known each other for a few years, you've always been very calm, nothing really makes you too excitable. So please do share that with us.
CL Goh
Thanks. Obviously, it's good to have a peace of mind, in that your sense of purpose at this stage of my life is quite well rehearsed to a certain extent, right? So, I think in a world that is changing, and I just recently attended a Hyper Island, Master of Arts in Digital Management, talking about exactly that, right? How do you develop adaptive leadership mindset? So, you're always dealing with change, you always will be leading with teams, working with a team of people in a collaborative environment remotely, how do you build trust? How do you share? These are also areas that I'm learning as well, because we come from, 30 years ago, the hierarchical rank organisations. What I’ve realising last few years from working with startups, and also from my recent courses, is that I think that adaptive leadership and expecting this is the unknown. And I think being prepared is the case that keeps you calm, allows you to make the adjustment. I told startup also, because the business plan that normally they presented to us, and the plan one year or six months later, will change, right?
CL Goh
We don’t know, yeah, if we're going to measure them purely based on what they present to us as a rationale purely for investment, then I think we're in the wrong space. It’s probably better being in private equity, dealing with a mature company with very predictable business and then valuing them. So I don't get angry, or I don't get disappointed when suddenly, the business plan wasn't exactly down to numbers. We have to be mentally prepared that that is the case, then a founder will understand he is working with someone that understood what a founder would have gone through.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 14:38
That's right. Part of the crisis-ready mindset or adaptive mindset, is being mentally prepared and this ability to make adjustments, because things are going to change, life happens, but more importantly, also to set the right expectations for ourselves. So, if you work with a startup, have the expectation that everything is not cast in stone, they'll have to keep pivoting and changing their business plan as they progress. And if you are looking for more certainty, then as an investor or even as an employee, we want to work for a more established company because they may not have those kinds of big changes in a very short time.
CL Goh
Yes, precisely. And the other point is that founders or the team, their situation awareness has to be 10x . It’s difficult if the founders or even management only show up for the investor meeting, but then he doesn't know a lot about their business, their competition, pricing, technology problems. I used to flip the hardware catalogues in the toilet, trying to be 10x more aware of the situation. So, situation awareness is something that I expect because then it allows you to make better decisions than anybody. This is a very important part. Yes, there will be changes, right? Because how do you react to those changes depends on what is your appreciation of the landscape, the situation you're in. So, I'd like to see from the founding team that they're always aware of their situation and the environment that they are in.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 16:14
That's both great advice and a great sharing of your own experience. Because if the one thing that you had to prepare for what's going to happen or change, is actually knowing what's happening already. Reading magazines, books, and newspapers and talking to people would be part of that. I've worked with some founders who can be quite disconnected to the reality of what's happening on the ground, and how they perceive themselves is more of, “I've got this great product, and therefore it is number one, or I'm this great person, and therefore, this product is a great service.”
CL Goh I see that a lot.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
You do.
CL Goh
Yeah we do see that a lot because a lot of very solution-centric founders, right? Because their limited working experience, their repertoire of problem statements, and appreciation of the problems may not be as broad and as deep. So that's quite common. But that's something that we, as venture builder, also try to help, right? In that we know that you come with a solution, but do we understand the problems that you are going to solve.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 17:23
You talked about peace of mind and sense of purpose and how does that connect with your life?
CL Goh
I have certain priorities that I have to lead a healthy life. But ultimately, why is health important? So that we can actually benefit our family, our friends, will enjoy a quality of life with our family and friends, and be able to select what we chose to do that we enjoy and also, in the process, enjoy the world? So that's basically what the purpose for me has been. Yeah, basically that's it.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Yeah, I mean, just focusing on the things that are important.
CL Goh
Yeah. And I review it actually, on a monthly basis. Basically, to lead a life of quality, like being healthy so as to enjoy and contribute to the life experience of my family and friends.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 18:13
Yes, okay, perfect. Do you think it's possible to live a simple life?
CL Goh
Yes, I think so. I asked myself, “What does happiness mean, right?” So, happiness to me means travelling with Shirley and family, experiencing the world, playing golf with my good friends. Being healthy to do the two above items. Knowing that my children are doing what they love to do and are financially independent. Shirley being happy with her life, and reading a nice book, in our most comfortable place, could be a simple life. Walking in the greenery in the morning with a smile on your face, to make that simple but precious.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
That's right, simple but precious. And if you have to use three words to describe thriving, how would you describe it?
CL Goh
Thriving, you can sense it, you can sense it through momentum, and also fun. When environment is thriving, it tends to be a fun environment to be in, and certainly joy. So, I think I look at it, ultimately, it still boils down to momentum, if you have the flow and the zone.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Yeah, that's wonderful. In the zone.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 19:20
We define Sustainability in our work as the ongoing thriving of a living system. That's when someone has the self-awareness to understand that everything that we do or don't do is interrelated and interconnected with other people and other things. And sometimes, it may even have unintended consequence to something that we thought was great, but someone else is impacted by it. Today, of course, Sustainability includes the SDG goals, climate crisis. You're actually pretty involved, and you, I think, have an investment in that area as well. But what is Sustainability for you personally?
CL Goh
For me, personally, old school way is that it is about leaving a place clean and better than the first round. I look at the Japanese when they cleared a soccer stadium; Whether they win or lose, it's actually by habit. Ultimately, if you have a sustainable habit, then you will actually contribute to Sustainability movement.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
That's great. You're the first one who's actually introduced this phrase to me – “Sustainability habit”. We talk about sustainability as a mindset. And you're right, if I reflect now on my various trips to Japan, even well before the Sustainability movement, they were doing their recycling, and they were very conscious about how they can reuse. Yeah, Sustainability by habit.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra 20:46
Okay, I'm going to ask you questions, they’re fast paced. Just say the first word that comes to mind, right? Don't overthink it. The first one is - What's your favourite book?
CL Goh
Atomic habit.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Okay, great. What's your favourite travel destination?
CL Goh
Japan.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Oh, and if you could have dinner with anyone, who could it be?
CL Goh
Oh obviously, I'll be my mom. But she passed away. 2018. Yeah.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
I got it. And what's your guilty pleasure?
CL Goh
I am not sure if it’s a guilty pleasure, but golf gets me healthy, too.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
What's the most unusual food that you've tried?
CL Goh
I don't know. I think it was in Texas. And they call it the Texas Oyster, but it is actually part of a cow or something.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Really? Wow, what is the best advice that you've ever received?
CL Goh
The best advice that I’ve ever received was actually very cliche because it's actually came out of a poster in a gift shop that says, “Live simple. Dream big. Be grateful. Give love. And laugh lots.” You'll see that poster somewhere in Australia or some of the gift shops. And actually, I do reflect and add that to my purpose.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
And what's the worst advice you've ever received?
CL Goh
I think the way to think about advice is that you shouldn't think that there's the worst advice that you ever received. It’s whether you decide to take action on that act. You can say that advice is feedback, and feedback is a gift.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Yeah, that's true. If you could have any superpower, what would it be?
CL Goh
Memory.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
CL, I've enjoyed our conversation. Thank you so much for being on this podcast with me.
CL Goh
Oh, I appreciate it. Thanks, Ramesh.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Thank you very much.
CL Goh
All right. Take care.
Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra
Take care. Bye bye.
Ho Lai Yun. 22:19
Thank you, Dr.Ramesh and CL for sharing with our listeners what it takes to excel in the art of venture building, and the key factors that drive entrepreneurial innovation and achievement.
Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur or investor, looking for inspiration to overcome the challenges in your life, or simply curious about the stories that shape the Changemakers of our world, this podcast series is your gateway to a world of insight and inspiration. Be sure to subscribe to the Thriving in the Age of Disruption podcast, or follow Dr. Ramesh on LinkedIn and other social media so you too become a part of Dr. Ramesh’s thriving network.