Entrepreneurial Journey from Newspaper Boy to Army Officer to CEO: Mr. Mohamed Ismail Gafoor (Singapore)

Growing grow up poor, Ismail developed the grit of a young boy forced to wake up before 5 every morning to deliver newspapers to supplement the family income. With his military training, Ismail the young man emerged as an army officer with steely discipline and leadership.

Join Dr. Ramesh and Ismail as they take us through the many twists and turns in Ismail’s life where, driven by his entrepreneurial instinct, passion and vision, he becomes the CEO of Singapore’s largest real estate company.

To learn more about Entrepreneurship with Dr. Ramesh, get your copy of The Big Jump into Entrepreneurship 2.0 on Amazon.com or www.Dr-Ramesh.com.

If you're interested to gain Mr. Gafoor's insights, do check out his books, including “You Can Fly” and “The Timeless Gift”. 

Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host and Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible

Guest Speaker: Mr. Mohamed Ismail Gafoor, Executive Chairman, CEO & Co-Founder, PropNex

#EntrepreneurialMindset #Entrepreneurship #Entrepreneur #Singapore #Success #RealEstate #Realty #PropNex #CEO #MohamedIsmailGafoor #Dr.RameshRamachandra #TheBigJumpintoEntrepreneurship2.0 #CrisisReadyMindset #TalentLeadershipCrucible #Thriving #AgeofDisruption #YouCanFly #TimelessGift 

Transcript

To learn more about Entrepreneurship with Dr. Ramesh, get your copy of The Big Jump into Entrepreneurship 2.0 on Amazon.com or www.Dr-Ramesh.com.

If you're interested to gain Mr. Gafoor's insights, do check out his books, including “You Can Fly” and “The Timeless Gift”.

Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host and Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible

Guest Speaker: Mr. Mohamed Ismail Gafoor, Executive Chairman, CEO & Co-Founder, PropNex

#EntrepreneurialMindset #Entrepreneurship #Entrepreneur #Singapore #Success #RealEstate #Realty #PropNex #CEO #MohamedIsmailGafoor #Dr.RameshRamachandra #TheBigJumpintoEntrepreneurship2.0 #CrisisReadyMindset #TalentLeadershipCrucible #Thriving #AgeofDisruption #YouCanFly #TimelessGift 

Ho Lai Yun  00:00 

Hello, and thank you for joining us on Thriving in the Age of Disruption today. Dr. Ramesh has a very special guest for you. Mr. Mohamed Ismail Gafoor, the CEO of Singapore's largest SGX-listed real estate company, PropNex. No stranger to hard work, Mr. Gafoor also has an abundance of talent, ambition, and can-do attitude. Let's jump right into conversation with this outstanding entrepreneur about the many twists and turns he's experienced on his journey to success in growing PropNex into a property giant under his leadership today. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  00:59

Ismail, welcome to the Thriving in the Age of Disruption podcast series. We are very excited to have you here today and I'd like to start off by inviting you to introduce yourself. 

Ismail Gafoor  01:10

Hi, I'm Ismail Gafoor CEO of PropNex Realty, Singapore's largest real estate company. We do have more than 11,300 salespeople helping us to bring the dreams of many people in their real estate journey.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  01:25

Wow, that is a big sales organisation. Say a little bit more Ismail, about your family.

Ismail Gafoor  01:32

I'm a very happy person. I always feel young. I'm always positive. Married with three beautiful children. My wife is a pillar of strength and my children have grown up, and I'm truly happy and feel so blessed.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  01:52

Wonderful. Thank you. I'm excited to have you because you're someone who has been in the media and people talk about your entrepreneurial journey. In this podcast series, I talked about entrepreneurship in terms of not just starting and running a business, but also the entrepreneurial mindset. Could you share with us your journey from being someone who was in the Armed Forces and then you had moved on to the business and how you did that shift? What was the motivation around that?

Ismail Gafoor  02:26

I really love the Armed Forces. One of the key thing about the Armed Forces is discipline. And the discipline came hugely from my dad because my dad is an immigrant. We were really not well to do, five siblings, and including myself, six of us. And we all lived in a one-bedroom rental flat. My dad being a news vendor. Why am I trying to tell that little story? Because that has got some huge grounding to who I am today. We used to wake up every day at four to 4:30am to deliver newspapers, literally 364 days of 365 days, the only day being boxing day where there were no newspapers those days. 

Ismail Gafoor  03:07

So, discipline came from my dad, leadership came from the military because at the age of 18, when I was enlisted, I was lucky enough to be selected to go to Officer Cadet School. And that one year of grounding and thereafter, 13 good years in the military as a regular pensionable officer. Until 1995, where I felt that though I love the army so much, I feel that I could do more being an entrepreneur that I want to achieve something to reach a greater audience. 

I wouldn't say I break my Army's bond because the fact that when I broke my pension, basically, I get zero money, which I could have got at the age of 50 or 55, more than a million dollars of gratuity if I choose to remain in the Armed Forces. But I felt there was a calling within me that military is good - discipline. But what will I be? Maybe a general, maybe not. I did not want to regret my life. And that was a decision for me to resign from the Armed Forces. But that does not mean I did not serve my Armed Forces when I left in 1995, first July, I continued to hold appointments in my national service as a Battalion Commander, Brigade Commander, and as well as a Division Chief of Staff. And I just retired in 2019. 

So, military is part of me. I love the military. I think nation-building and defence are something part of my blood. On the other hand, entrepreneur journey is something that I truly wanted.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  04:42

When I was listening to you describe your entrepreneurial journey, you shared about the desire to reach out to a larger audience, and this was the driving factor to you becoming an entrepreneur. Can you share a little bit more about that?

Ismail Gafoor  04:56

I mean, one of the key things that I realised was from my childhood, I was able to influence people. And I was able to communicate and articulate things quite effectively. Not that I was a scholar, not that I did well in my academic, but the confidence within me that it is all possible. And I realised that when I went into the army with the discipline and the leadership, I had the same opportunities, where, as part of the command, I was able to influence my soldiers to do things willingly. And then I felt that "How about me going out to bring more dreams"?

Ismail Gafoor  05:35

Being in real estate is something that was planted even before I went into the Army. And I think that has truly got to do with our childhood bringing. The fact that we worked so hard to deliver newspaper - every newspaper we deliver, we only get four cents because … and four cents. And the age of 18 while I was travelling in a bus to go to my national service as a BMT, Basic Military Training, a friend of mine told me that his uncle sold a flat near Cavenagh Road as the bus was passing, and he said his uncle sold and made probably a quarter million-dollar profit. It sounded insane to me. How could somebody sell a property and make quarter million dollars when I have to wake up early morning and deliver for four cents? Quickly, I was trying to say how many four cents will make a quarter million dollars, my mental mind wasn't fast enough. But I was quick enough to say if I can make 250,000 selling one property of owning one property. If I own four properties, I would be a millionaire. 

Ismail Gafoor  06:40

So, that was deep in me the real estate is something that I'm excited about. Though I served the army for 13 good years, my passion was all about real estate. And that's where somehow it felt that maybe a journey on an entrepreneurial path. Obviously, Dr. Ramesh, it would be a big fat lie, if I say, “I was a visionary. I left the army because I wanted to be a founder or CEO of Singapore's largest real estate company.” It was never, never, never the case. In fact, when I left the Army within three days, I was hospitalised for chest pain, in middle of the night at 2 am because I felt that I made the wrong decision of leaving the Army. Being there for 13 good years, and the first job since the age of 18, suddenly, I want to be an entrepreneur without a mentor, without guidance, without anything. It was only one belief, your heart says you can, the 'can-do' spirit that you can. But actually, truly, you can't if you don't know where to start. And that's where the call started to build on, stress builds up, and anxiety and chest pain. And I was hospitalised a couple of days and the doctor checked everything and he said, "You're perfectly normal and fit, Soldier." Yeah. But I said. "I'm no more soldier. That's my problem." And myself and my wife just went to Genting Highland just to relax and said, "Hey, there's no point worrying and stressing ourselves, but it's to execute." The fact that military have taught me a lot of execution and we decided to put most of these things in use, as part of the commercial world. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  08:18

Wow. So, let me summarise it. What we've heard is, number one, the power of big dreams. And they started when you were a young child from delivering newspaper together with the rest of the family to next, when you were passing by Orchard Road, and one of your Army mates told you about this big property that his uncle had sold, and connecting that to something where you saw, "Wow, four cents per newspaper to 250,000 in one property deal.” And that ignited that passion towards property. Number three is keeping that alive and taking that risk to say, "Okay, thank you for this great career in the military," (something that you've always been proud of and passionate about) "but it was now time to go out there and explore the big world outside,” with a can-do spirit. And then of course, you had your challenge with the quick reality check that you were out there in the world, with no mentors, and no safety net. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  09:22

But at that point to have someone like your wife to empower you, and to have that chat that, "Hey, let's not stress ourselves, let's just get back to implementation. And both of us are really good with planning and executing. And let's do that." 

Thank you for sharing that journey. It may sound very simple now but as you look back, each one of this was a moment where you've discovered something important then moved on. But mostly you've kept the faith, the faith in yourself in the future, and in pursuing an entrepreneurial journey.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  09:58

So, what does entrepreneurship offer you? 

Ismail Gafoor  10:00

Beyond freedom here is the ability to make things happen. I think entrepreneurs, obviously have positive mindset. One of the key success traits of an entrepreneur is other than believing in himself, he has to make decisions, which is expected of all leaders. But how timely can you make decision is crucial. Because sometimes when, let's say, there is a flood, you wait until the flood is over, and the water has gone and then you say, “let's pick up the damage” is still a decision. 

But what do we do when the crisis happens, that's leadership. And that's entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship is being nimble to know that there is always a way out. Never a time that you are stuck. There is always a way out. And regardless of what crisis, what darkness - the clouds, knowing that the next day you will see the sunshine. It will happen but how do you navigate through the night? Do you have that patience, that calmness to believe in yourself, the 'let's do something'? It is about doing something that makes the difference. And that's the most amazing part of being an entrepreneur. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  11:18

Well, that's really good advice, not just dreaming about it, but really taking the action. It's interesting that you also introduced that whole concept of 'crisis' here, because crisis is any kind of setback that we experience. And I like the fact that you talked about navigating crisis from a sense of having patience, and being calm about it. Were you someone who was born that way? Or did you develop it?

Ismail Gafoor  11:44

No, I don't think I was born that way. And I think almost every one of us can learn these traits. In fact, I was more hot-blooded when I was young. That was part of the military. But the good thing here is that I have a sense of balance that I will not lose my head. In fact, many a times when I was young, whenever I lose my head, it's about myself, about why I have not done better. Yeah, it is always putting a high expectation on myself. So, the main thing about crisis, it is always understanding that "Hey, being angry, being emotional, being upset, you will never be able to find the right answer." And exactly as you said, it's about doing things in a crisis, at least there is hope of getting out of it, than to just pointing fingers and blaming, nothing is going to change. I'm very, very crystal clear about it.

Ismail Gafoor  12:39

One other thing, Dr. Ramesh shares is, crisis is good for entrepreneur. I always felt that we, as a company, will do exceptionally well when there's crisis. When there is no crisis, we will do well but we will not be 'exceptionally well'. Because in a non-crisis environment, everybody's an entrepreneur. Only in a crisis, in my honest opinion, a team of people, not one person - the CEO, a group of people who are so aligned with the belief of adding greater value to people, to mankind, and society can move mountains. And because they are so collectively, so positive, that they will do exceptionally well than many other companies. We are very, very confident about it. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  13:28

You're actually pointing to something very interesting that we have also observed in our consulting work, which is sometimes crisis or setback has a rallying force to bring people together. When they come together, it's almost like you can set aside your petty differences because now it's that one direction, it's that one future that we're all going to match towards. And that's true alignment when companies can do that, not all companies can do that. I think it's a special aspect of its corporate DNA. Obviously, PropNex has that. How did you cultivate that for PropNex?

Ismail Gafoor  14:05

Very good question. Ramesh, the rallying point is easy for every company to find in a crisis. But I don't think it is going to be easy if the culture - the DNA of the company has not been built before the crisis. So, culture plays a huge part of it. And the values of the company play critically the most important part. What is the belief of the people within the company? What is the sole existence of the company? What is a core ideology, which is a core values plus the purpose of the company, which forms the core ideology - so cemented and very strong within your core key management? 

So, you look at crisis, everybody looks at it from a similar angle. And before even your utter a first word, they already know we are in a crisis and everybody's excited, only one thing in their mind, "How are we going to get out of it and add value to our people?" So, it is not during a crisis, a leader standing outside, and rallying to paint a very risky picture and say, "Listen to me, believe me. Let's rally." Because when you start to do that at the moment when the crisis starts, maybe close to 50% will not even trust. They are going to ask you, "Even in good time, we did not do. What makes you so sure you're a leader that is going to lead us to do this?" And that is going to take a lot more time to get your thoughts organised and to get the support of it. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  15:32

Yeah, what you have described is a hallmark of a visionary leader who has foresight. Because most leaders we found in our practice are quite happy with the good times and to ride that out, and not to invest in those moments when you face a challenge. And that's when you need the collective willpower of your people and your team to work together. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. 

Ismail, what is your advice for aspiring leaders and entrepreneurs? 

Ismail Gafoor  16:02

Whether you're young or middle aged, we need to be guided by values. The minute we are not guided by core values, it's difficult to make decisions. And we cannot be blinded by money, as a motive as an entrepreneur. Because the day when we are blinded by money, chances are we are going to make decisions that we will cut corners and more often than not, we will be blinded to our own values. And this is going to just bring you down the slippery slope. And you may make some money, you may get out of a situation, but it is never going to be long term. 

Ismail Gafoor  16:45

To give a very simple example, when we started the company in 1996, initially, it was known as Nooris Consultants. It was coined after my wife name Noor, and my name Ismail. We grew very fast within the two years to became the biggest Malay Muslim Real Estate company. But then we started to ask the question “So what?” Being the biggest Malay Muslim Real Estate company when the pie is so small. And that's where we decided, with the amalgamation of few other like-minded people, to form a partnership to start PropNex 22 years ago.

Ismail Gafoor  17:20

But the message that I want to say here is this when we started PropNex, it was doomed to fail within the first four years. In fact, two occasions, we were at the verge of destroying the partnership and destroying the name as well, simply because I started PropNex in year 2000 because I wanted economies of scale, because we were small, we thought the big is small, and we have to be faster. And therefore, the only way here is to come into partnership with few other partners so that we can be also big enough and we will enjoy huge amount of economies of scale, and we can pass on these benefits to our people. Concept-wise, it’s right; execution-wise, it’s wrong. Because the partners that came together, I did not focus on what were the values among us that drive us and what we want to achieve. 

Ismail Gafoor  18:12

And that's why it couldn't move much forward. Even though we can grow fast, without the foundation being strong, the pillars are not strong. So, I think in any company, the strong piling pillars will be the core values and the purpose. Once you are very crystal clear about it, then your decision-making is easy. Every decision as you make and you're trained over time, it is in micro-milliseconds. Before you utter a word out of your mouth, the brain will be so fast to just go through the process to say – how do you say 'yes' or 'no'? Because it will say, "Hey, is it against values or not values? Is it the right thing to do or no?" You will say no, a firm 'no’. If you say yes, if you say let me consider again, guided by value. So, I am a person who is so much about values.

Ismail Gafoor  19:04

But to tell you the truth. Dr. Ramesh, when I started PropNex, there wasn't any core values for the company because our values was only economies of scale. And that's why we had huge amount of problems for the first four years. Then in 2004, we decided to put in place our core values and our purpose, then we started to build our foundation right to who we are today. 

So, to all the young entrepreneurs out there, ask yourself, "What are you guided by? What are the core values? What is the purpose that you want to build this company? Is it that we want to be rich? Or is it that some things within you that you want make a difference?" Just very briefly. 

If you see what our core values for PropNex, acronyms, simple, CARE. C. A. R. E. C stands for Continuous Improvement in everything that we do. And then A, Autonomy on Entrepreneurship of all our people. R, Respect and Concern for every individual. And E, Ethical Conduct of the business. 

Ismail Gafoor  20:06

Now you asked me, "How do I make a decision?" If you ask me to make a decision in such micro-milliseconds, my brain will have to say, "Am I curtailing autonomy? Is this been part of entrepreneur? Is this continuous improvement? Am I respecting people? Is this part of honest ethical conduct?" If it is not, the answer's no. You have to be guided by something, then it becomes easy process.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  20:32

I really love how you have made corporate culture, one's core values and purpose of an organisation so simple for people to understand, and how it can be effective when it is clear for the individual on what they have to choose in that moment, because every moment we're making a decision. And no one has to go back to their boss, or to check things because they are empowered, you've delegated it out to them. It is very inspiring that you have thought very carefully how to build this company so that it is sustainable. That's a big challenge because you've got more than 11,000 people. How do you distil those core values down to that single individual so that they can embrace it?

Let's move to the next topic and that is about spirituality, where are you in your spiritual journey?

Ismail Gafoor  21:27

I discovered something Dr. Ramesh there is a power of Almighty. No man is bigger than Almighty. God gives me the energy every single day to do what I'm supposed to do. I came to this realisation sometime back that I'm not hugely gifted in my education when I was young. I only had ‘O’ levels. I did my ‘A’ Levels part-time, did my diploma part-time, got a degree part-time. And it is not about education, then I felt, "What am I doing? Why do I have 11,300 salespeople in Singapore, and another 2,000 over salespeople, overseas in Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, or Cambodia?" But then I felt that it was the Almighty's decision that my purpose is to make a difference in the life of the people. You may be one of the first interviews that publicly I'm going to say this.

I felt that the Almighty has chosen me as his distributor. One of the many 1,000s of distributors of His love, guidance, and support to anyone who come across my path. And the Almighty knows, the day when Ismail hits swell, when he thinks he's bigger than the Almighty, when he starts to use the word "Listen to me, I am number one", when I'm not doing the right thing, the Almighty knows when to remove me as His distributed in a split second, and I'm down - all the way down and I know that. And I come to this realisation, the purpose, not about my company - the purpose of me being a human being on this earth, the Almighty, the Creator - He is ultimate. And it is my journey now to do what I'm supposed to do. And that gives me huge amount of energy to everyday wake up and come. How spiritual? Okay, am I happy what I'm doing? And I'm happy. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  23:27

Yeah, I totally get that. That was very profound. Thank you, Ismail. And how did you discover that? There was a moment, or is it over time you got to see that?

Ismail Gafoor  23:38

I think it is an overtime issue. I don't go to a cave. But when you actually started to have that quiet moment, I think it's important as leaders. We need quiet moments. And in that quiet moments, ask yourself, "Why are you more successful than others? Why when you touch thing, as an entrepreneur, you get things a lot more moving? Who's behind you to give you the energy that direction?" Sometimes you're right, sometimes you don't know you're right. You use your gut feel. As you said, sometimes we use the faith. Who is ultimate supreme to guide you if you create huge amount of wealth or guidance? If that was that little spirituality within me, I submit it is not me. And I absolutely will say, the growth of PropNex cannot absolutely be me, Ismail. It is a group of my people who are extremely strong. 

Ismail Gafoor  24:32

I mean, if you ever visit and talk to my people, Dr. Ramesh, we can write a thesis. They will ... me almost, you know why? My CEO of my company was someone who joined me 18 years ago as a management trainee, and he's just 14 years old of a Main Board Listed Company. My executive directors with me for 19 years. People stay with me, and they grow together with me. I mean almost everybody, 10, 12, 15. We believe in one thing, that we are here for a ‘purpose’. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  25:06

Wow. What I also hear is that there is a sense of gratitude for the opportunity to have this life to be a ‘distributor’, to be that instrument. Also, I can hear the importance of being able to do some introspection or self-reflection. Because when we do that, then we see how we can be part of a bigger scheme of things than just to look at everything as something that I did, or I was so smart. But here is something that you're building as a collective with people who have been your long-time partners, and collaborators and co-creators. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  25:27

A lot of people who are stressed with the disruption that we are seeing today, and at some level, the disruption has come to a point where people talk about how even chicken is not available. But more importantly, we need to start confronting living a simple life. Is it possible to live a simple life? And what's a simple life for you? 

Ismail Gafoor  26:10

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I 1,000% agree that Dr. Ramesh, we all can live a simple life. And I think life is only beautiful when we live simply. I think we choose to complicate many things ourselves. My honest opinion here is what is simple life is a happy life. So, whatever we do, there must be, again, purpose. Why do we need to work so hard? Why do we need to earn so much of money? One thing is absolutely certain, we all cannot live forever. How smart you are, how rich we are, we all have an end state. So, why do you want to be not happy, whether you're an entrepreneur, or you're not an entrepreneur, or whether you're a manager, or a director, or a staff, we have to be happy. We should be happy, working. 

Ismail Gafoor  27:05

So, as long as you enjoy the journey, everything will be meaningful. As long as we have expectations, we will be disappointed. So, am I saying as a CEO, I don't have expectations on my people? No, I set KPIs. But if they fail, is it 100% their problem? Or is it my problem? I take it as our problem. What is the point of the end of the year, I said that "you failed me" when I as the CEO, it is my issue. Why did I not spend time with him, three times within the year to see what was his struggle? So, I failed myself. That's why I said, if ever my frustration, that's why it is always, I will reflect myself on before I point at the next person. 

Ismail Gafoor  27:51

So, can life be simple? Absolutely, yes. As long as you don't cling to ego, you don't cling to leadership, you don't cling to power, as long as you walk the journey, knowing that you're doing it, as what is expected of you to make a difference in the life of people around you, is a journey, and enjoy the journey. And that will definitely be simple. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  28:22

What a great recipe! Don't cling to ego, leadership, and power. Thank you for that. And what do you think, then, we could do to have a thriving or a flourishing life?

Ismail Gafoor  28:34

Yeah, I think this is in need of human. Because if you don't grow, you wilt. When you wilt, you're not beautiful. The flower is only as beautiful as long as it remains strong and it continues to grow. Only when you grow, you bear fruits. Only when you bear fruits, you feed more people. So that being the case, it is always about ‘thriving’ against current, against crisis, against norms - Thrive. It is okay, we can’t achieve. The worst thing here is not to thrive. It's 'give up'. And that's not life, so I think thriving is the way. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  29:15

I've got a question for you about family businesses. You've got three kids; do you have an expectation that they join the business. What are your thoughts?

Ismail Gafoor  29:24

I think as you also pointed out, Dr. Ramesh, 80% of most businesses is family business. If you want to have family businesses, one generation to another generations to carry through, then please seriously look into the core values of the company - the DNA of the company, the purpose, and the ideologies. And therefore, one generation to another generation can carry through for as long as it is possible. And that's perfectly okay. 

Ismail Gafoor  29:52

But as far as my company is concerned because we are a Main Board Listed Company, from the definition we may not be truly a family-owned company. My eldest daughter started working for me last year, first July, after she graduated from Business Administration from UK, which she did very well. And I threw her last year for the first 10 months as a Management Trainee from the lowest customer service counter to support system to logistic. And she just started her next role as a normal executive under the Human Resource, because while she was a customer services, she said, "Daddy, you should get more good staff. You should have more people who are very customer-oriented. You must set the right team." I said, "Good, so you go to HR. Go and fill all the gaps now." So, the fact's that now she learnt. 

Ismail Gafoor  30:41

So, next question, is she destined to be the CEO? She may not. Because I strongly believe this company should be run with the most capable person, which means meritocracy at its best. But can she contribute at what she's good at. So, people have to accept the leader that you are the right person, so nobody can walk up just to say that "I am part of the family. And I'm the most fitted." No, it cannot be that. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  31:15

You know, we do a lot of work with family businesses. And what we have found is that most family businesses focus on getting the business's purpose, its core values, and strategy worked out, but they don't pay as much attention to that of the family as well as its individual members. 

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  31:34

So, in our work, we usually start off by creating a future for the family and it's done with the family as a collective. We find that this process is able to include the aspirations and the needs of the individual family members, as well as look at the legacy of the family itself as a collective. At times, some of the family members might not want to join the business, and some may have different talent. So, through this process, people see that the family is interested in having each and every one of them to be successful in life. It also gives the flexibility and space for the family members in the sense that it removes the pressure for them to only be focused on the family business.

Ismail, you have published several books, can you share the motivation for writing them? 

 Ismail Gafoor  32:26

I've published three books, the first book I wrote, and I was quite fortunate at that time, our former President Assad … wrote the foreword for the book and he came to our office to launch the book. And obviously, because with all the media coverage, it became a National Bestseller. The book title was, "You Can Fly." And the objective of the book was very simple. It's all about Belief System. And every one of us can be a strong leader. Circumstances can force people to be a stronger leader. That was the first book. 

Ismail Gafoor  32:57

But the second book also became a National Bestseller, very simple, probably will take an hour to read. In fact, the whole book was coined after I spoke to the children of my agents. And there was one of the events, about 40 children came to my house because I hosted for about 200 people. And all the parents said, "Hey, motivate my children." And the children were 9 years, 10 years, and 12 years. So, I started to go to some whiteboard and started to share a lot of content. Most of these things and created a book, this book, titled "The Timeless Gift." It is about four quadrant life priorities. And what I did was, assuming we live up to 80 years, what is the focus point for the first 20, then 20 to 40, 40 to 60, and 60 to 80. And if you live beyond 80, it is blessed.

Ismail Gafoor  33:51

So, my conclusion was for the first 20 years, the most important thing other than education is 'values'. If you have the right values and the foundation with education, we will write through well in the second quadrant. The second quadrant is the most busy quadrant, people get married, people get career, and people get house. People need to do so many investment. And at the same time, some of them go through a divorce in the same quadrant. But one thing I say that we must do is invest right, that you're at your peak, 20, 25 30, 35 whether you are to buy a property, whether you are to save money. Then from 40 to 60, it is about making a difference to your loved ones. Because when you're 50, your child will be 20, your parents will be 70-80. So, it's about giving back and guiding your loved ones. And 60 to 80 if you're working because you enjoy it, not because you have to, this is where you are supposed to give back to society, give your time, and make a difference to mankind. 

From that concept, I develop a story of four characters to explain how everyone fumbles at different stages of the quadrant. And why one character by the name of Andrew did well, understanding the story from the other three.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  35:14

And the third book was?

Ismail Gafoor  35:16

Probably the third book was purely on “The Ultimate Guide to Real Estate Investment in Singapore”, and that was written many, many editions, edition one to edition five.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  35:24

Awesome, thank you for sharing. It's so inspiring to talk to you. Our listeners will really benefit from listening to how you think and what has motivated you. Thank you very much for joining us and sharing so candidly. 

Ismail Gafoor  35:40

Not at all. Indeed my pleasure. Appreciate it.

Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra  35:42

That's great. Thank you.

Ho Lai Yun  35:44

Thank you, Dr. Ramesh, and Mr. Gafoor. I just love the simplicity and wisdom of how Mr. Gafoor has distilled our passage through life and each season's priorities and focal point into four clear quadrants. If you're interested to gain more of Mr. Gafoor's insights. If you're interested to gain Mr. Gafoor's insights, do check out his books, including “You Can Fly” and “The Timeless Gift” through www.amazon.com. The links are provided in this podcast description so you can easily click through to get your copy. 

Ho Lai Yun  36:14

Next up, we'll be sharing the story of another brave entrepreneur, who followed his heart to leave the US to settle for in Vietnam. Straight out of university, no less, Mr. Chris Freund is founder and partner of Mekong Capital, the first hands-on private equity firm in Vietnam and repeated Winner of Private Equity International's Industry Awards. We follow Mr. Freund's journey of transformation played out at a personal level in his life, career, and Vietnam's developing nascent private sector. 

Ho Lai Yun  36:48

Thank you for listening today. We look forward to having you join us in our next episode of Thriving in the Age of Disruption Podcast.

Bio
Mr. Mohamed Ismail Gafoor, Executive Chairman, CEO & Co-Founder, PropNex

Mr Mohamed Ismail is the Executive Chairman and CEO of PropNex Limited - Singapore’s largest listed real estate agency group, with PropNex Realty as the flagship subsidiary that has business in sectors such as real estate brokerage, property management, training and real estate consultancy. With more than 20 years’ experience in the real estate industry, Mr Ismail has an intimate understanding of the industry.

He was a member of the Lifelong Learning Council, a 15-member community led council set up by the Workforce Development Agency of Singapore and Brigade Commander of 12SIB. From 2010 to 2012, Ismail served as the President of the Institute of Estate Agents.

Despite a busy schedule, Mr Ismail has juggled numerous appointments and activities and he even found the time to write a motivational book, “You Can Fly”, which was officially launched on 20 July 2005 with His Excellency Mr S R Nathan, President of the Republic of Singapore coming in as both his foreword writer and special Guest of Honour for the launch. Mr Ismail also published 2 other best-sellers like “The Ultimate Guide to Real Estate Investment in Singapore” – Third Edition and an inspiring motivational book titled “The Timeless Gift”.

Ismail has been awarded many accolades. These include: the Singapore Malay Chamber of Commerce & Industry’s Entrepreneur of the Year Award, a Spirit of Enterprise Award and the prestigious NSMan of the Year Award in 2004.

In 2008, he was the winner of the Association of Small and Medium Enterprises’ Top Entrepreneur of the Year and Top Entrepreneur for eCommerce Awards, and Singapore Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry’s Overall Indian Entrepreneur of the Year Award.

And just recently in 2015, Ismail was recognized as Entrepreneur of the Year (Spirit of Enterprise, Nexia-TS). This is the pinnacle of all his individual awards as he emerged from the 390 qualifying local entrepreneurs with exemplary achievements.

A firm believer of training and life-long learning, Mr Ismail has institutionalized a complete series of learning programs that includes developmental seminars, workshops, consultancy services and legal support for all his property consultants so that they can stay ahead of competition and deliver the maximum value to their customers.

He has spoken about property investments to various organisations, both locally and abroad. His views and insights on the property scene are much sought after by the local media. Mr Ismail has been highly commended for his keen insight, communication skills, and ability to lead, motivate and influence people.