Taking Technology Solutions from Lab to Market: Dr. Krishna Kumar Nallur (Singapore)

"I've got an idea. It's going to change everything."

Enter Krish's world of technopreneurship, where it's all about taking an idea in the Lab and having the business, technical and operational focus and savvy to develop and launch technology solutions into the market successfully. The key is to deliver value to users and in the process, one might just transform industries and the way we work.

Dr. Ramesh also explores with Krish his personal challenges to find that elusive balance in work, play and life. As Krish's favourite quote goes, "The wisdom of life lies in the elimination of the non-essentials”, he shares the key question we must ask ourselves, in pursuit of a simple life and realising our true potential in order to truly thrive.

Join us so you don't miss the diverse views on entrepreneurship discussed in this episode.

To learn more about Entrepreneurship with Dr. Ramesh, get your copy of The Big Jump into Entrepreneurship 2.0 on Amazon.com or www.Dr-Ramesh.com.

Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host and Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible

Guest Speaker: Dr. Krishna Kumar Nallur, CEO, SPEEDCARGO Technologies 

#EntrepreneurialMindset #Entrepreneurship #Entrepreneur #Technopreneur #SMU #SingaporeManagementUniversity #InstituteofInnovationandEntrepreneurship #SingaporeMITAlliance #SMARTInnovationCentre #innovationlab #incubator #Innovationcentre #StartUp #Singapore #SPEEDCARGO #CEO #KrishnaKumarNallur #Dr.RameshRamachandra #TheBigJumpintoEntrepreneurship2.0 #CrisisReadyMindset #TalentLeadershipCrucible #Thriving #AgeofDisruption #robotics #AI #artificialintelligence #airfreight #deeptech #industrialautomation #software #aviation #logistics 

Transcript

To learn more about Entrepreneurship with Dr. Ramesh, get your copy of The Big Jump into Entrepreneurship 2.0 on Amazon.com or www.Dr-Ramesh.com.

Host: Dr. Ramesh Ramachandra, Author, Podcast Host and Founder of Talent Leadership Crucible

Guest Speaker: Dr. Krishna Kumar Nallur, CEO, SPEEDCARGO Technologies 

#EntrepreneurialMindset #Entrepreneurship #Entrepreneur #Technopreneur #SMU #SingaporeManagementUniversity #InstituteofInnovationandEntrepreneurship #SingaoreMITAlliance #SMARTInnovationCentre #innovationlab #incubator #Innovationcentre #StartUp #Singapore #SPEEDCARGO #CEO #KrishnaKumarNallur #Dr.RameshRamachandra #TheBigJumpintoEntrepreneurship2.0 #CrisisReadyMindset #TalentLeadershipCrucible #Thriving #AgeofDisruption #robotics #AI #artificialintelligence #airfreight #deeptech #industrialautomation #software #aviation #logistics 

Lai Yun  00:02

Hello, and thank you for joining us on Thriving in the Age of Disruption . Today, Dr. Ramesh meets with technopreneur Dr. Krishna Nallur, who is the CEO of SPEEDCARGO, a Singapore-based deep technology start-up that offers best-in-class AI and robotic solutions for the air cargo and logistics industry.

Dr. Ramesh  00:23

Today we have a special guest, Dr. Krishna Kumar Nallur. He's the CEO of SPEEDCARGO. He's also been involved in the Singapore-MIT Alliance for Research and Technology Centre (SMART), which brings together cutting-edge technologies from the lab to the market. Today, he's going to share his experience as a director at the Institute of Innovation and Entrepreneurship at the Singapore Management University (SMU), as well as his time working in the start-up industry in India, as well as in Singapore. 

Dr. Ramesh  00:54

Krishna and I have known each other for several years now, we've always had heated discussions about entrepreneurship because we both look at entrepreneurship from different perspectives. But ultimately, we both think that entrepreneurship is a very important part of nation building and having societies thrive. Welcome, Krishna, to today's Thriving in the Age of Disruption podcast series.

Dr. Krishna 01:21

Thank you, Ramesh. It's a pleasure to be here.

Dr. Ramesh  01:23

Could you just share a little bit about what you do?

Dr. Krishna 01:27

I'm currently working as a CEO at a start-up called SPEEDCARGO Technologies. We are looking at really transforming the industry that has been behind innovation for over 20 - 30 years. Prior to that I spent around 8 years in the start-up space, trying to build the ecosystem at Singapore Management University as a part of the Institute for Innovation and Entrepreneurship. And then at the Innovation Centre at Singapore-MIT Alliance for Research and Technology to try and bring ideas and technologies to market and to provide the necessary support to innovators and entrepreneurs, to help them transition from something in the lab to something that is creating value. And prior to that, I spent around 20 years working with some large organisations, launching new products, organisations like BPL, then with Bausch & Lomb, with Casio, with Wipro. Then worked with a few of my friends, a few start-ups. We tried to create something of our own. And I did one journey, started by myself, where I tried to provide consulting services to small- and medium-sized enterprises in India to try and see how they can break from the shackles of being a SME to a growth-oriented business. That's been my experience.  

Dr. Ramesh  01:28

Krishna, can you tell us a little bit about your family? 

Dr. Krishna 01:34

We've been married for 22 years, nearly. Nisha has really allowed me to do what I wanted to do. She's been very supportive. Son who's 20 years, he is now looking to join University. He is trying to do something in the area of psychology. I hope he achieves his potential. 

 Dr. Ramesh  03:27

Well, thank you for sharing that. Because we both have a shared interest in entrepreneurship, having spent some time with incubators and start-ups, I wanted to share a little bit about how you got started on your entrepreneurial journey. 

Dr. Krishna 03:42

When I look back at my career, and I look at the different kinds of activities that I did. It seems that the entrepreneurial career was the only career that was right for me. If you go back and look at the first job that I did, I was involved in primarily launching a new product from a supply chain and a planning and production perspective for a company called BPL in India. Post my MBA, I worked with a company called Bausch & Lomb, and I was part of the team which helped launch their multipurpose solution for contact lenses, cleaning solutions in the southern region of India, and also launched an entire series of memorabilia around the 1996 Olympic Games. Since then, every job, I've been a part of doing a new project for somebody. And then I finally decided to do something for myself or work in a start-up where one could start creating value. What I enjoyed doing most was starting something afresh, doing something where there were no precedents. So, you had to create something new. You had to figure out how to do things and then make it happen.

Dr. Ramesh  04:47

That's right. Those are some entrepreneurial skill sets, which is essentially to be resourceful, to solve the problem, manage the risk and create value. Krishna, it's really interesting that You started off doing that on the job as in working for someone else. And I guess, working on new product launches or new market development is actually the best way to learn that skill? Can you share a little bit more about what it takes to actually launch a new product, like the science behind it?

Dr. Krishna 05:20

In many ways, there needs to be a purpose for the product, right? Clearly, if you have a new product, you need to know who's that product intended for? Sometime when you start looking at a product, you start looking at it from inside-out. When in reality, you're supposed to look at it outside-in, and who is it intended for? What are they going to use the product for? And how does your product really add value to that intended user? Once you have that construct very clear, then it's a mechanism of how do you make this audience aware of this new product? How do you build interest around the product? How do you make sure that it's available for them as a part of their life? And where they can get access to it easily? The central part of launching a new product is really figuring out whether there is an intended user for the product, and is there a real value that you're creating for that intended user. If that is there, then you have crossed 'step one'. 

Dr. Krishna 06:13

In my case, I did not have to go through that process of figuring it out, because we were in India, responding to or replicating the successes of some of these brands that they had in other markets. It was more about fine-tuning it in terms of making it acceptable to the target audience, the need was already established. If you look at it from an entrepreneurial mindset, I think it's very different because we're really coming to the world with a new product that has no prior equal product in the market, you're either addressing a latent need, or you're creating a new need. Right? Then this process of validating whether this product is really required, whether there is an intended user, and whether it really creates value for them becomes even more essential. And a lot of times people who have gone through the process of actually launching a lot of products in the market think that is the same when you start and become an entrepreneur. But what you're doing then is to develop a go-to market strategy. You're not really validating the opportunity; you're just going into a go-to market strategy without validating the opportunity. And that's where sometimes we have these gaps, where you have a lot of exciting programs that are done, where people do bring products to the market, but it just doesn't take off. 

Dr. Ramesh  07:26

One of the other key challenges that entrepreneurs have to deal with is the viability of their start-up. Often it's that creative tension between a go-to market strategy, the validation of the opportunity, and getting the revenue to pay the bills. What do you think about that? 

Dr. Krishna 07:46

All of us exists and work within a framework of what we are capable of, what we have access to in terms of market, what we have access to in terms of resources, investments, and funds. If you have to be successful, you need to know how to navigate that and make use of these capabilities or accessibilities to your benefit. It's a good point that you raised because let's take the case of electric cars and Elon Musk, right? Exciting new opportunity. There are a lot of people who would have thought of electric cars about autonomous navigation. And there are people who have started off early on in research labs and other search environments, trying to invest in developing technologies that they can take to market. But is there an entrepreneurial venture that somebody would be able to raise enough funds to take seeds to the end of life? Or will they create a technology which is then purchased by somebody else? So, that becomes a question that you need to ask. 

Dr. Krishna 08:40

In my mind, an entrepreneur does two things. It's not just about introducing a technology to the market. But it is also about seeing it through that lifecycle to the point that it gets to the user and encashing on the value of that product or service that the entrepreneurs launched give to that user. A lot of the time people talk about creating something and then saying, "Okay, now there will be another company that will acquire us and then we can take it to the next level." You need to figure out how to work within the environments and the framework of what you have access to. 

Dr. Krishna 09:11

Most importantly, ROE is also important. I talk about ROE as Return on Effort versus Return on Investment. Because there are some things where the effort that is required to cross the barrier to get the product into the market and then become a sustainable business opportunity has a very long path. I mean, again, go back to alternative energy sources and go back to solar panels. How long does it take? The first company that created the voltaic cells and who came out into the market and started selling solar panels, do they exist even today? Are they viable businesses? It's important for us to understand what is possible and what do we want to achieve? That goal is important. I'm not saying that it's wrong to believe that you want to change the world and you should go out and do it. But it should be clear that what you will do on some of those journeys is to move the product and the technology forward a little further down the path towards a mass acceptance in a longer term. And then that's the goal, which should be fine. 

Dr. Krishna 10:10

What happens to a lot of entrepreneurs is that because you live with the hope and what drives you is your motivation to change the world, right? You step out with that in hand, and then suddenly, the limitations of the environment in which you operate come into play, and the effort that you require to surmount that starts increasing as time goes on. Right? 

Dr. Ramesh  10:10

That's right. 

Dr. Krishna 10:12

And then you need to start balancing things out and you need to start recalibrating it, figuring out whether this is what you need to do. And can you sustain that effort? And at what cost are you going to be sustaining that effort? When I talk about Return on Effort, I'm not talking of taking low-hanging fruits and saying that that is good enough. By no means am I suggesting that a copycat kind of a model or this product doesn't exist in the market now, let me bring it here and make it available to this market, then I think that that's a business, that's not entrepreneurship. You're just taking an existing product or service from one market and then putting it into another market. There may be bigger complexities that you're trying to solve, but it's still a business. 

Dr. Ramesh  11:08

Well, I think that's where you and I differ, because I look at entrepreneurship as any kind of business idea that can be brought into existence. And it can be an idea which is tried and tested in another country, it can even be in this country itself, and you're just providing some enhancement, some improvement. Because the key thing that it is all about is, "Are you being resourceful in life? Are you taking control? Are you in charge? Are you managing the risks? Are you creating value?" We over emphasise that entrepreneurship is all about technology and it's all about bringing this 'grand new' idea to the world. And it's not about these traditional businesses, which can actually empower and support a lot of communities to uplift and become financially independent as well. What do you think about that?

Dr. Krishna 12:03

I must agree with you with the fact that existing businesses, smaller businesses, businesses that bring solutions to markets that did not have the solution before are very important. They are important pillars on which society is built. However, what I feel that we have done today is that we have put this concept of entrepreneurship on a pedestal, we are making everybody aspire have and in the process of aspiration, making it accessible to people, you have reduced the quality of entrepreneurship.

Dr. Ramesh  12:30

That's a good one. 

Dr. Krishna 12:31

Again, I'm not taking away from that continuum of starting something new and the challenges that people have to go through to get a business running. Business is complex, and nobody should take something away from that. But the point is that when we bring down what entrepreneurship is supposed to mean, then we don't create future entrepreneurs, we will miss identifying those people who will create those, and not everything is centred around technology, right? It could be a business model innovation, right? We will miss those opportunities that we will not be able to identify them. And what I feel today, everybody is looking at a 10x return on investment. Right? Now what happens to venture financing when it gets distributed amongst all kinds of businesses? What is the pressure on the entrepreneur to create value? Every time you don't create that value, you're removing the amount of support an entrepreneurial idea. Some of these have much longer horizons to create value, then you look at things that have much shorter horizons, then you're willing to look at something which is not as impactful. My only perspective is that sometimes, I think we have to hold ourselves to a slightly higher standard and expect a lot more from ourselves.

Dr. Ramesh  13:43

Well, we both understand the importance of entrepreneurship as an activity which drives the growth of economies. And we both appreciate the fact that entrepreneurial mindset is important. But I think where I deviate, especially because of my influence and activity with a lot of cottage industry and how it has impacted communities, even at a very basic level. I think, yes, it is a lower-end of entrepreneurial activity. But still at that point when people are taking the risk, it is an important piece.

Dr. Ramesh  14:19

But what I want to do is to come back to the work that you've done with incubators like the Incubator @SMU, Singapore Management University, as well as the MIT Labs in Singapore. Could you share a little bit more about the kind of projects that come to these incubators? And what do you think the typical things that trip up the founders who go to these incubators? 

Dr. Krishna 14:42

A lot of things have changed since the time that I was at SMU, and at that time, the incubator was primarily supporting students' ideas and helping them validate those ideas and see if there's a business opportunity to create an entrepreneurial venture. I remember in those days when we talked at the IIE, one of the objectives was not just about creating start-ups, but it's also about providing students with that opportunity to learn in an environment where they could fail. If I were to look at it, it was not that anybody could join the Incubator. There was a session where they would need to pitch to a panel of mentors, they would evaluate the ideas. These are people who are entrepreneurs themselves. They had run businesses before, or they were heading new projects and new products in larger organisations. These people would validate the opportunities or validate these ideas, and then provide them with inputs to see if it was worthwhile to provide support. Or they would say that "Okay, why don't you look at these ideas in slightly different light?" or "What you're saying has already been tried and tested somewhere else? And these are the reasons why they failed. Now, why don't you go back and check and come back and tell us what you would do differently to make sure that you are successful?"  

Dr. Krishna 15:49

So, it was partly learning. And also, there was a whole host of resources that we would give, right, which would come from mentors and access to the industry, which would help them validate the idea and then create a business model around it, and then develop a plan which they could go and put in front of some investors to raise some funds. There were some good start-ups that were created from that period. A few years back, there were quite a few start-ups that were created. In fact, the Red Dot Payments is one, the Rainmaker Labs is another and a few others. They still exist in the market today, some of them have been acquired, some of them are grown quite a big. And these are students who started off who figured out there that something interesting, they invested time and effort in developing, not necessarily new technology, but putting technology and a business model together to offer a service that is unique and different. That was good. And it was primarily student-led ideas. 

Dr. Krishna 16:41

My understanding today is at SMU, perhaps has opened up a little more to accept ideas from non-students. And it's open incubator right now. At the SMART, which is the Singapore-MIT Alliance for Research and Technology where I was part of the Innovation Centre, the perspective was very, very different. It was to identify technologies that arose from research, in any of the institutions of higher learning in Singapore, and then see if some of these technologies would have a market opportunity, which they could be aligned to, and then build out a potential start-up around that. And again, a big difference, I would say is that, in the first case, you have students who wanted to become an entrepreneurs who are looking for ideas, the motivation and the intrinsic drive to do something new and create something new was already there. 

Dr. Krishna 17:28

In SMART, we had researchers, people who are looking at solving something or building new technologies. They were not really looking at the market in great detail. And even when they created the technology, they were not really looking at getting out by themselves, or role at SMART was to build an entrepreneurial mindset amongst these technologists and these researchers, and to enable them with the necessary skills to evaluate whether there is something that is interesting in the market. And then provide them with the comfort of knowledge and enough essential skills, to be able to say that, "I think I can move out of my comfort zone and research to get out and see if I can take this technology that I have spent so much of time in the lab developing, to creating value in the market." Those are the two big differences, very interesting, deep technologies that we see in Singapore. And the challenge has always been when you have a technology, you have to find an opportunity; when you have an opportunity, you have to find a technology. There is a big problem to solve. Yeah.

Dr. Ramesh  18:26

What do you think is the key to actually having people develop an entrepreneurial mindset? 

Dr. Krishna 18:32

There is something that I used to tell a lot of the students at SMU, some people who would come with ideas and say that I don't want to do this because if I don't get a job now then. I always used to ask them to look at their life. And if you look at your life, and if you start earning at the age of 25, and you go on to earn until you're 65, let's say if you're working somewhere. And so you have a good 40 years of lifespan when you're doing things, I asked them spending two years or three years, what does it take from that 40-year cycle as a percentage, right? It's less than 5% of the time that you spent to build a career for yourself. If you look at it from that perspective, first is that what is the amount of time that I'm giving up to create something of value? Okay, and invariably, you will find that the two to three years that you want to invest to experiment and figure out whether what you're doing is actually going to create value or not, is a small portion of your entire life and you can actually afford to give up that time to pursue this if you're really interested in it. 

Dr. Krishna 19:33

When you think of this time in that small block, your life is not going to be measured by that small block. Right? You learn a lot in those three years. And that learning stays with you for the rest of your life. The way I see it is that it's an experiment. You don't look at it as something that somebody has to judge you by. You don't have to look at it as something that you have to judge yourself by. Okay, it's a learning process. It's about learning what works and what doesn't work and it is an experiment. When you do an experiment, you do not go into an experiment saying that I will be successful. If you go in with that mindset, then automatically you open up your ability to make something out of that two to three years that you devote to this experience is much higher.

Dr. Ramesh  20:15

Yeah, I talk about this in my book, The Big Jump into Entrepreneurship 2.0, there is definitely a shift in how people view entrepreneurship. In the past, it would have been unheard of to take that two years off, or three years off even in a 40-year career because Singaporeans are famously well known for being 'Kiasu'. And so, losing that opportunity would have been a big blow. But more importantly, I've also found that most of them actually have a huge fear of failure. It had to do a lot with the society's stigma around failure. But I think increasingly, in the last, at least, 10 years, we've seen people be more willing or open to actually try out different things. 

Dr. Ramesh  20:58

Krish, can older people whose become founders for the first time of start-ups be successful? What are your thoughts about that? Because if you look at how people view entrepreneurship, most people look at Mark Zuckerberg or some 18-year-old or a 25-year-old. And they think that anyone who is 30 years or younger is going to be more successful as a first time start-up founder. But actually, research suggests that people who have an average age of 45 years probably going to be more successful, even though they are counterparts, younger and more energetic.

Dr. Krishna 21:36

Look at what does it take to be an entrepreneur, as much as it's about capabilities or the internal mindset. It's also about opportunities, right? That's where the experienced entrepreneur has got an edge, because typically an experienced entrepreneurs pursuing an idea or an opportunity, which they have identified based on their experience, which means that the likelihood that their opportunity is real, is much, much higher than the opportunity of somebody who's had much less. So, there is a big advantage for people who have started late, because they can use their experience in industry to identify the gaps that exist, where there could be the potential for something new to be introduced, and for a need to be fulfilled. That's one part. 

Dr. Krishna 22:21

The second part, I think, is that more than anything else, one has to look at your life in different stages of their life, right? Very young, which is good, because at that time, they don't have any commitments they are by themselves, they feel that they can afford to take risks, because they don't have a family, for instance. While people in their 30s are building their family and they have commitments. They've probably purchased a house. They're servicing a loan. And if they are by themselves, then they may be averse to starting off something. But the moment you become a little older, then you have that experience. When you're getting in and you're pursuing that opportunity, it's not about risk. It's about uncertainty. When you talk about risk, right? It's about what are the chances of success or failure.

Dr. Krishna 23:03

In an entrepreneurial venture, you cannot evaluate that because a lot of the things that you're trying to address during the entrepreneurial journey is about removing uncertainty, because you're addressing a lot of unknowns, right. And because an experienced entrepreneur has actually traversed a lot of those parts, the uncertainty in the venture that they are pursuing should be much lower, should they have that advantage. And they are also mature, in terms of managing a team, they know how to get the right set of people, when they go and raise funds, it may be a little more easier for them to raise funds in an environment where they know how to handle and manage these funds, right? There is a lot of opportunity for people who are in the 40+ kind of a space. It's about that mental model about how do you look at the opportunity.

Dr. Krishna 23:48

There's a lot of stories that have been talked about, do something on the site, and then build it up. And then transition to it when it makes sense. My own perspective is that you cannot be an entrepreneur on the side. It has to be the main gig, you can validate the opportunity before you get in. But when you get in you get in, full time. It's very, very difficult to do multitasking. And you will not do justice to either of your efforts.  

Dr. Krishna 24:10

An entrepreneurial venture requires a lot of focus a lot of attention, because the venture is not going to be running by itself. Every aspect of the venture, from raising funds to getting the team on board, to getting your first customer to the deployment on the ground to do the marketing activities, requires your focus and attention because you'll be working with a small team. And you can't do that as a side gig. The other thing is that if you are really getting into an entrepreneur venture, you should not do this by yourself. It's about building a team that can deliver everything because you can't be good at everything. Real idea is that validate the opportunity, bring a group of like-minded people together, who complements your strengths. And then you have something where people will play together to achieve a common goal. And that's what I would expect an experienced entrepreneur to be able to bring to the table- the ability to work in teams, the ability to identify what are they good at? What is somebody else good at? How do you build that complementary team? For a person who's starting afresh, they don't have that experience, they will learn along the way. And some of them are very, very fast learners, the successful ones really learn fast, and they bring in that learning. And what incubators and accelerators do is to enable that learning process. The reason why you have a lot of incubators and accelerators is primarily to help support them early on.

Dr. Ramesh  25:27

Right. What is it that one has to be ready for, if you want to be an entrepreneur?

Dr. Krishna 25:32

It is important to understand what kind of a person you are. On a personal level, do you live in the past? Do you go back and review and relive a lot of the stuff that you did? Do you live in the present where you're really focused on exactly doing what you need to do? Do you live fully future where you're constantly building castles in the air, you're talking about this is a new thing that I need to do? What I have realised is that the ideal forum entrepreneur mindset is a person who's got a mix of living in the present and thinking about the future. You learn from the past, but you can live in the past. Right? 

Dr. Ramesh  26:04

Yeah. 

Dr. Krishna 26:05

And a lot of the time, you need hope. And you need motivation to drive you forward. So, the only way you drive yourself forward is by thinking of what is possible. So, the future is important. But if you live in the future, and you're not doing anything today, you will never achieve anything. You need to be as rooted in today as you are in the future. And if you can bring these two worlds together.

Dr. Ramesh  26:25

Oh, very well said. thank you, Krishna. I want to now move on to another new topic area that I'm also equally passionate about. And that is how can we develop a crisis-ready mindset. And I wanted to know, what can you share with us about your own experience of dealing with a crisis, and how you got out of it? 

Dr. Krishna 26:50

I will talk about a professional crisis. In 2012, we moved as a family to Singapore. We primarily moved because my wife moved with a job to Singapore. I was at that time in the middle of moving from one start-up to thinking about launching a new idea in India. And since I was thinking about something I said, "Let me join you in Singapore and then figure out what to do." I came in here, the idea did not have legs at that time, I decided to look for a job. And I think I spent around six months trying to find a place to work. It was probably one of the most difficult times that I had because that was for the first time in my life that I was sitting down and doing nothing. It was quite difficult. I mean, I had a very supportive family because at no point was there a question ever raised as to what I was doing? How was I trying to do something? My wife was very supportive. 

Dr. Krishna 27:43

But you have to justify to yourself, what is it that you're doing? Two things. One was that I kept trying everything. I went to networking sessions, I talked to people, I talked to headhunting agencies, I looked out for jobs, I tried to connect with people who could introduce me to organisations. I did all of that. And I also took a decision saying that I cannot do this in perpetuity, the way I reconciled that process was that I gave myself six months. I said that "At the end of this period, if I did not get something, then I would move back to India, and do something back in India." Because there were other opportunities that were available. I was helping create a start-up for a PE firm, then I left that firm in India to come to Singapore, with my wife. And that opportunity was always there for me to go back to.

Dr. Krishna 28:33

That is the way I reconcile it. But I believe there are things that helped me, you know, transition that. Three things. One is that I had a very supportive family, there was never a day where anybody would ask, "Okay, what are you doing? And how are you going to move to the next stage?" It was a difficult time, because we were a double income family, I was earning very well. And coming here. I mean, despite the fact that Nisha had a good job, and it was paying well, it was still lower than what we would have both been earning in India, right? With expenses in Singapore, it's not the cheapest place to live. So, it was difficult but the support was very good. 

Dr. Krishna 29:04

But two things. One is, okay, if you sit and moan about your situation, then it becomes very difficult. You have to try everything, giving it your best shot. There could be many circumstances that are not in your control. And it's not in your control, accept it. Two, create a formula for action as an alternative. What happens if it doesn't happen? You have to move on. But then you have that big discussion, right? We both came to Singapore, hoping that we could start afresh here. "Now, listen, that's not gonna work, I have to go back." That's a discussion that we need to do. As long as you create those alternatives and you have a path forward, then you are able to weight. Otherwise it can be very frustrating. I'm giving you a summary. There are points then they were big highs and they were very big lows. Right? This is a short and sweet part of it.

Dr. Ramesh  29:48

Thank you for sharing that. And you know, definitely you touched on something really critical here. And that you know, it's important to have a good support network. And In your case, your family was one. Two is to be able to generate that inner motivation to go out, keep knocking on doors and trying out different things. But the third piece, which is actually something that some of us find difficult, which is to have the difficult conversations that we need to have. Because once you've had that conversation with your wife, like, "Look, if it doesn't work out in six months, maybe I need to go back first." That is also important because it gives you them the freedom to play full out, making sure that you can create what you need to create, without feeling constrained. So thanks, Krish, for sharing that.

Dr. Ramesh  30:42

Is there any one thing that you wish you'd done differently in your life?

Dr. Krishna 30:54

Well, there are two things. It is all personal. I would have liked to spend a lot more time with the family. I've always been excited by work and typically been completely engrossed when I do that. I don't have time for anything else. In terms of my mind space, it's important for me to say this because it's not all about activity and action. It's also about what is your mind filled with? And what I have found is that I did not have as much mind space for the family, you might be doing activities with them. But are you spending time, asking them, "What's happening in their life? And how are they doing?" That is number one, that's one thing that I would have liked to do differently. Number two is I should have developed a hobby, outside of this interest in entrepreneurship and business and ideas. Something that you can do, which is not necessarily productive but it gives you a sense of satisfaction outside your work. I haven't done that. And that's something that I need to, I don't know, figure out.

Dr. Ramesh  31:52

That's something that I struggle with as well. I love the way you shared about how you don't have the mind space for family at times when you become engrossed with work, and the challenges of launching a new idea to the market. The second piece about developing a hobby, outside of what consumes you at work, that's also a developmental aspect of ourselves. And it's important to explore that. I might take a leaf from your sharing here and go and develop a hobby so that I can also start to look at what do I want to do beyond just work?

Dr. Ramesh  31:38

Krish, what do you think about spirituality, and where are you on that journey?

Dr. Krishna 32:36

Very, very early in that journey of spirituality. There is one central theme that it is built around, which is that they are all connected. For me the central theme around spirituality lies in the fact that it is the connectedness that we have to everything, to each other, to nature, to the universe, and everything that exists. I mean, we are not apart from it. And that realisation is very important. It's very difficult for us to remember that in every activity that we do. But I think at least some time every day, we should take time to think about the fact that we are all connected. If we realise that and if our actions are based on those connectedness, then the challenges that we face will no longer be challenges. We will figure out a way to address the issues that we have before the world, whether it be political, economic, or personal, interpersonal, environment, whatever they be. The challenge lies in the fact that you need to have a connected set of people, right, it's not just about you as an individual. Connectedness means that you and I are connected, and we are spending time to be connected. And I think the problem that we face today is that we don't have time for connectedness and to build empathy with everybody else, and to understand different points of view. The world has become too fast, we need to slow down on some of these aspects to reflect on these things. That is what spirituality is, to me, a little bit of reflection.

Dr. Ramesh  34:03

I really love how you described it, not being connected. And that resonates with what I say which is being part of the 'whole' and also not being separate from others. What you actually highlighted is that there are no shortcuts. We have to put in the time, whether it is through listening to other people and demonstrating empathy. We need to slow down so that we can reflect. Thank you, Krishna, for highlighting that for all of us here.

Dr. Ramesh  34:03

The next thing is do you think we can live a simple life in today's world? And how would that look like?

Dr. Krishna 34:36

That depends on your definition of simple, right? What is simple for me may be very complex for somebody else, and what is complex for someone may be simple for somebody else. But yeah, I tell my son that "If you really go back and look at my life, the way it was when I started. First, got a job and what I'm living now, there are a lot of material things that have been added. But essentially life is the same." There is a real question of what do we need in life? I'm not saying that we should not enjoy travel, we should not enjoy food, or you should not have material possessions. I'm not saying that I'm just saying that we need to really ask, "What do we really need?" And as long as we can answer that to ourselves, honestly, what we really need is simple life for that person. It's an individual choice, and how you define what is simple for you, is to really ask yourself, “What is it that I really need? And can I get what I really need? If you get that, then you're living a simple life.”

Dr. Ramesh  35:31

Oh, that's really great. You have actually pointed to something interesting. Our needs are so different from our wants. Maybe in a simple life, it's focusing on what we need, and not what we want, because what we need is really for our survival, whereas what we want, it can be aspirational can be just because someone else has it. It can be about much more than what we really need, right?

Dr. Krishna 35:56

Yeah, I'm reminded of a quote from philosopher called Lin Yutang from Eastern philosophy, actually, of Chinese. He says, "Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is a noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom in life lies in the elimination of the non-essentials." It is one of my favourite quotes. 

Dr. Ramesh  36:18

And so, what does thriving mean to you, thriving or flourishing?

Dr. Krishna 36:24

All of us have some intrinsic potential. First of all, we should understand what is our true potential? Right, thriving requires us to know, what are we capable of? What can we achieve? Right? What is our true potential? One is to spend some time to figure out what is our true potential. And thriving means that you start working towards achieving that. And if you're doing those two things, then that's what thriving is. Because then you're aligned with trying to achieve what your true potential is, as an individual. A lot of the time we sell ourselves short.

Dr. Ramesh  36:59

Yes, that's right. Really, this is about this journey with yourself that you take.

Dr. Krishna 37:04

Yeah, I've been an active participant in my life.

Dr. Ramesh  37:07

That's really wonderful. Thank you, Krishna, I was reflecting about how you and I looked at entrepreneurship a little bit differently. And I think the key is really, you're looking at entrepreneurship with a very big element of innovation around it. Would that be accurate?

Dr. Krishna 37:24

Yes, I'm not taking away from the entrepreneurial mindset that is required to start a business, I'm not taking away from the challenges of starting a business. What I'm probably trying to say is that when you bring something which is very innovative, the graph around uncertainty increases. While when you're bringing something which is not so innovative, but you just tried them, then it's more about risk and less about uncertainty. Both are very, very big challenges. And you can face a very big risk, right? All of these are very personal, uncertainty is very personal. So, it's what is your capacity to take risks? What is your capacity to work in an uncertain environment? So, it's very personal.

Dr. Ramesh  38:05

Yeah, it's almost like it's in the eye of the beholder.

Dr. Krishna 38:08

Yes, you're right.

Lai Yun  38:11

Thank you, Dr. Ramesh, and Dr. Krishna, for sharing your diverse views on entrepreneurship. Listeners, if you're interested to nurture that entrepreneurial mindset, which can give us valuable life skills that will help us solve everyday problems, adapt changes, manage risks, and create value in our work in our lives. Do check out Dr. Ramesh's book, The Big Jump into Entrepreneurship 2.0. You will find the on Amazon.com  link in the podcast description so you can easily click through to get your copy. 

Lai Yun  38:42

Next up, we have a very special guest, Dr. Jessica Leong, who is none other than Dr. Ramesh's mentor. Dr. Leong possesses both clinical and organisational experience as a counsellor and psychotherapist with over two decades of in-depth practice. Thank you for listening. We look forward to having you join our next episode of Thriving in the Age of Disruption podcast.